Symbols and keeping Imperial Officers in Cannon

[Konig15]

Hi, as I'm fleshing out my possible AU fanfic, I'm designing a couple of characters, and while they're not supposed to be MAJOR characters, it's important that I try and keep them as close to cannon as possible:

Non OCs:
Chief Bast: Fundamentally decent and level headed individual who serves Tarkin out of loyalty to the Emperor.

Admiral Motti: young, ambitious, psychopathic Fleet Commander who licks Tarkin's boots, hoping to become third in command of the Empire after Tarkin (with Death Star) becomes #2.

General Tagge: Prudent general who sees the Empire making it's own enemies, and his claims that the Rebellion is infiltrating the Senate are said to keep the Empire (Tarkin and Vader in particular). Opponent of the Tarkin Doctrine.

Admiral Griff: Career soldier who is too impetuous, but effective nonetheless. He has respect for Vader but considers Tarkin and the Moffs in general to be scum and would kill them all if he had the chance. He hates how the 'bureacrats' are using the Rebellion to create more havoc and believes after the Rebellion is crushed, the Emperor will clean house. Thought of as a good and honorable man.

Commander Pallaeon: 2nd in command of the Chimaera. We know him, we love him, we wish HE were Emperor instead of Palpatine. Wants to be captain, but he's going to be PO'ed when his Captain is killed. Problem is, I don't know that captain's name. Help a brotha out?

Emperor Palpatine: Early in the story, Palps gets a 'facelift' against his will be a very old and cracky and lecherous Jedi Knight who knows many secrets of healing and long life. Basicly he looks like he did in TPM, only with his hair totaly red. The Jedi tells him she loves beauty and there are few things more beautiful than his unmaimed visage. Surprisingly this calms Palps down as he doesn't see a hidous monster in the mirror. This makes his even MORE dnagerous, because without the psycholigcal canker sore of his ugly face, he regains control over his emotions which make him a better leader and three times as manipulative as before (imagine it, smart, sexy, seductive Palpatine talking sense to Luke on the Death Star II, a much more interesting scene I'd say)

Captain Ozzel: In my story, he is a friend of Senator Messernine Worthington (see below), and after someone 'mysteriously' blow up Worthington's office after he made unkind remarks to the Emperor in the Senate, he gives Worthington the key to the Hotel where he lives while stationed on Coruscant. He's clumsy, though taking dance lessons to correct that, and a little too ambitious, but Worthington thinks ambition is good for a man with talent.

Though he's not head of the Academy anymore, Ozzel's working in the JAG, namely on that day to formally reprimand Captain Dinkley of the ISD Hupal (it's Dathomirian Rancor for 'One who feasts on his enemy's intestines' [That's all mine, but I figured the Imps would love it]) but running into her walking around vomiting her guts out, he forgives her for missing the reprimand session and offers to drive her to the hospital. Worthington says to him "You're a good man Kendal, don't let anyone tell you otherwise." If I can make Ozzel Human and sympathetic, I will be quite pleased.

OCs:
Captain Dinkley: A hold out from the Clone Wars, Mary Dinkley is a capable captain, though she's in trouble for refusing to deploy her TIE squads (everyone knows that she doesn't want to she the pilots killed wantonly because they have no shields; this is a common problem for captains of the second rank, especially the ones that stayed on after the Clone Wars.) She openly uses the Stormtroopers aboard her SD as her "never-ending supply of Cabaña Boys," and before you say anything, Daala did it too. Really the Navy wants her to go into early retirement. Officially Imperial policy is that male only Armed Forces reduces 'fraternization of the sexes,' and Dinkley is proof positive of this.

Messernine Worthington: Messernine makes a wholesale mess of the SW good versus evil. He supports the New Order wholeheartedly, and that's why he speaks so openly of it's excesses. He believes in High Human Culture; therefore it's Humanity's duty to 'lead the way forward,' not bomb Caamas or enslave Wookiees. He was once a student of Palpatine's (this is fannon from 'Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil, which I HIGHLY recommend') and knows of Palpatine's ability to inspire and teach, and he wants Palpatine to rule as he did during the Clone Wars, not 'like a Sith Lord.' He hates Tarkin abd all he stands for. Palpatine knows Messernine can be a potent ally and has traditionally used him as the weathervane of the Senate because Messernine is too integrous (or too stupid) to sugar-coat or lie in the Senate.

His final speech to the Senate (and Palps), two months before its dissolution, Worthington says that the Death Star project will doom the Empire to permanent Civil War and even a hard-core New Order supporting sector like Teanaar may (ie WILL) fall away from the Empire and into the Rebellion. Issard blows up his office in retaliation, without Palps approval, but Worthington survives, sort of.

Like I says, this isn't about good idea/bad idea. It's about Plausibility. Dinkley's a women, but she's a holdover. Worthington speaks his mind like Mon Mothma mostly because he's considered loyal. Ozzel is clumsy, Griff is impetuous, Bast and Pallaeon are powerless and Tagge doesn't know how to use his, but they are all serving an Empire, that cannot truly, YET, be called evil.

And as far as the symbols go:
What is the symbol for the Jedi Order?
What is the symbol for the Sith Order?
What is the symbol of the (Old) Republic called?
What is the symbol of the Rebellion called?
Is there a symbol that represents the Galactic Empire and the Galactic Empire alone?

Also, if you know the nameing scheme for Rebpublic, Imperial and Rebel Ships, I'd be thankful. :)

[DarthSolo]

I'm not a detail oriented person usually, so I don't know the names of the symbols or anything. BUT, I am a story-teller/writer, so I will give you my compliments on the characters you've created. They are all interesting, thought out, and realistic.....

with the acception of Palpatine. I mean, he's interesting, and thought out, but I really don't see the Emperor we know from anywhere in the saga to be someone to be seduced by a Jedi to get a facelift. That's just too far out of character for me. Yes, it would have been interesting to have an attractive Emperor, but that just isn't him. That's my only critique. I like your ideas.

[Konig15]

Oh I didn't say Palps was seduced. This old Jedi is not as powerful as Palps, but because she's lived so long she can use the Force to defeat Palps and Vader without moving a muscle, but due to certain stipulations concerning her long life, she can't actually kill Palpatine. So she spanks him with a wooden paddle, like she did with her kids, for being a "bad boy" and threatens to pull out the "Heavy Duty S&M Gear" if he disbands the Senate. THEN she forcibly, and somewhat painfully, restores Palpy. He had no say in the affair

She has nearly God-like powers and can't use them except where "it's not important." This Jedi, once called Darth Vinoos, led by a vision in the Force, managed to stop the Hutts from accidentally blowing up the Varl system circa 15,050 BBY, because in any case the Hutts were about to takeover Nal Hutta anyway. From a Galatic perspective, wither the Varl system is dead, like the Standard Galaxy, or teaming with life, as in this AU, makes no difference.

She was actually able to let the Teanaarians steal the Star Forge at the battle of Rakaata Prime by A: joining Revan at the beginning of the Jedi Civil War and convincing him to install hyperdrive on the Forge, "just in case" and B: after Revan leaves the Forge, a Teanaarian commando team goes aboard the Star Forge, does a blunt jump away from the Sun (though this nearly destoys it) and then jump to Teanaar system, where the Force synsitive parts were ripped out and the Forge retofitted with standard manufacturing techniques. Meanwhile Vinoos, in a shuttle, created the illusion of the Star Forge being blown to bits. It damn near killed her, but it worked, for a couple of days, so the ending in KOTOR happened and then they realize there's no debris field. She could do that only because the IMPORTANT thing was the Forge was made no longer availible to the Sith, how that happened was unimportant. And that power may seem like a stretch but frankly, the Ruusan Thought bomb and Jacen Solo's "Forcewalking" through time are even further out there. Vinoos is defensive when people say no Jedi is POWERFUL enough to do those things; she states power is NOTHING, control is EVERYTHING, and THAT is why the Sith Way is inferior to the Jedi teachings.

Maybe I should abandon this strand, but I like the idea of saving systems from being destroyed. It's an important motif in this piece I'm cooking up.

[Cydon]

http://starwars.wikia.com/images/thumb/2/22/Sithempire2.jpg/180px-Sithempire2.jpg Behold... the Sith Empire.

[Cydon]

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b38/DarthVader_ROTS/SWsymbols.jpg

Here's some others.

[DarthSolo]

Oh I didn't say Palps was seduced. This old Jedi is not as powerful as Palps, but because she's lived so long she can use the Force to defeat Palps and Vader without moving a muscle, but due to certain stipulations concerning her long life, she can't actually kill Palpatine. So she spanks him with a wooden paddle, like she did with her kids, for being a "bad boy" and threatens to pull out the "Heavy Duty S&M Gear" if he disbands the Senate. THEN she forcibly, and somewhat painfully, restores Palpy. He had no say in the affair

She has nearly God-like powers and can't use them except where "it's not important." This Jedi, once called Darth Vinoos, led by a vision in the Force, managed to stop the Hutts from accidentally blowing up the Varl system circa 15,050 BBY, because in any case the Hutts were about to takeover Nal Hutta anyway. From a Galatic perspective, wither the Varl system is dead, like the Standard Galaxy, or teaming with life, as in this AU, makes no difference.

She was actually able to let the Teanaarians steal the Star Forge at the battle of Rakaata Prime by A: joining Revan at the beginning of the Jedi Civil War and convincing him to install hyperdrive on the Forge, "just in case" and B: after Revan leaves the Forge, a Teanaarian commando team goes aboard the Star Forge, does a blunt jump away from the Sun (though this nearly destoys it) and then jump to Teanaar system, where the Force synsitive parts were ripped out and the Forge retofitted with standard manufacturing techniques. Meanwhile Vinoos, in a shuttle, created the illusion of the Star Forge being blown to bits. It damn near killed her, but it worked, for a couple of days, so the ending in KOTOR happened and then they realize there's no debris field. She could do that only because the IMPORTANT thing was the Forge was made no longer availible to the Sith, how that happened was unimportant. And that power may seem like a stretch but frankly, the Ruusan Thought bomb and Jacen Solo's "Forcewalking" through time are even further out there. Vinoos is defensive when people say no Jedi is POWERFUL enough to do those things; she states power is NOTHING, control is EVERYTHING, and THAT is why the Sith Way is inferior to the Jedi teachings.

Maybe I should abandon this strand, but I like the idea of saving systems from being destroyed. It's an important motif in this piece I'm cooking up.
Alright, well I see how in the story you've justified it. But I still don't see Palpatine as the type of guy who gets manipulated...at all. And also, is it necesarry to the story for him to get a facelift? Because if it's not, then I'd leave it out. And I don't understand why this woman has "almost God-like powers" but can't kill Palpatine. That just doesn't make sense to me. Maybe I need more explanation of her character, but someone with the power that you're giving her should be able to do more than give the guy a facelift, which doesn't really seem to serve her purposes anyway.

[Master Magnus]

Because of the nature of this thread, I'm moving this to the Fan Fiction forum.

The picture of the era symbols which Cydon posted above are as follows:
Sith Era: The old Sith Empire symbol
Old Republic: The Galactic Senate symbol
Republic Armed Forces: The Republic symbol
Galactic Empire: Well, the Galactic Empire symbol
Rebel Alliance: Well, it's the symbol for the Alliance to Restore the Republic
New Jedi Order: It only looks cool
Fett skull: Mandalorian symbol
Jedi (games): Game symbol
SW Legacy: Legacy era symbol

These (and more) symbols can be found in this article (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gallery_of_insignia%2C_logos_and_symbols) over at Wookieepedia.

[Vesper]

I'm pretty sure the in-universe symbols are more like this:

http://starwars.wikia.com/images/thumb/0/0c/RebelAlliance.jpg/120px-RebelAlliance.jpg (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:RebelAlliance.jpg)
Alliance to Restore the Republic

http://starwars.wikia.com/images/thumb/7/7b/Implogo.png/120px-Implogo.png (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Implogo.png)
Galactic Empire

http://starwars.wikia.com/images/thumb/3/3e/Republican_Emblem.png/120px-Republican_Emblem.png (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Republican_Emblem.png)
Galactic Republic

http://starwars.wikia.com/images/thumb/8/85/Jedi_Order.jpg/120px-Jedi_Order.jpg (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Jedi_Order.jpg)
Jedi Order


The two pictures for the Sith Order are accurate as pictured in this thread, with the one for the 'Sith Era' representing the Sith Order in general and the larger one exclusively being representive of Revan & Malak's Sith Empire during the Jedi Civil War.

[Konig15]

Hey thanks a lot guys, that Jedi Order logo is particularly badass. Magnus man, that link's invaluable: I didn't even know the Imps had tanks!

But about Vinoos: see her immortality has NOTHING to do with the Force. See "War of Submission" I've been talking about in my Odd Idea Thread was the Tribulation from Revelation, along with several other prophesy strains. This was no Left Behind; there was no Rapture, and the Christians went on a genocidal campaign rathre than submit to the Antichrist. Vinoos' husband was Job Worthington, called the Butcher, who killed hudreds of millions, and bascily he royally pissed off God, so God, in what most people would call entrapment, offered Job a wish, as long as it didn't involve changing the past. Thinking most of Revelation was abrogated (as he came from a Fundementalist school of escotology, which in many ways was dead wrong), Job wished to kill the Antichrist, the False Prophet and "The Turin Clone." That's not exactly what the wish was, but it was granted.

If you know your Bible, you know where this is going. The Antichirst, the Prophet and the Turin clone and the acting Satan were thrown into the Smoking Pit, only to be released at the End of Time. Job can't kill them until then and was thus rendered immortal. Vinoos, who understood what this meant begged to share in her husband's fate.

When they died the first time, they lost most of their ability to influence events, though their bodies were restored to the day they first made love to each other. Like Job knows Needa and wants him to leave Imperial service before Vader kills him. He physically can't say, speak, write or otherwise persude Needa, even by proxy, to change from the path where he meets his end with a Force-choke and a backhanded acceptence. Job's REALLY upset about that.

But see Job and Vinoos were both Star Wars nerds and their reacal about things from their early life is very good, and they are vry much aware that they are in what we might call a "fictional scenario." Job's just thankful he's not in "Star Trek." Job actually having to life in a time with them, actualy hates all Force Users, except his wife who carries none of the gravity customary of a Jedi or a Sith. Vinoos is actualy a "Dark Jedi" though she's been on the Council no less than six times, including being on the orginal concoul.

Vinoos, is potent because the same principles of midichloridian "Force madness" in clones grown too fast applies to Humans who have never been exposed to midi-chloridians; their bodies, brains, and perhaps sould are not properly synched to the midichloridians. Vinoos says it's possible to touch the Force without Chloridians, but it's easier. What happened when the colonists of HMS Coruscant landed on Coruscant was the Humans became violnetly ill for several weeks as their bodies ajusted, and took in ever greater amounts, of midi-chloridians, somed developed Force powers they could not conciously control, others could by mere will do anything they wanted and some of these became Sith Lords, though Coruscant being filled with Americans and Brits who's parents had fought superpowered freaks in the Trib, gunned them down with extreme predjudice. But that all settles down in a generation.

Worthington and wife however, is restored to a state where they have no chloridians and they get sick all over again, especially Vinoos, who's midi-chloridian count usually levels around 18,000. The out of synch nature of her mind makes her FAR more powerful than chloridian count would indicate, and it's already high. Vinoos just stays out of the darkside because she sees the Force just as a tool, not a God like other Jedi nor a means to dominate others (she finds keeping Job and any kids they have at the moment trouble enough). But even without devine restrictions, she probably still lose to Luke Skywalker at the height of his power.

Vinoos is a ver sexual character, and she restores Palpy's face mearly, and ONLY because it was her wish to do so. She found pre-Mace Windu Palpatine very sexy and for her that's reason enough to make him whole. Vinoos can touch her index finger and middle finger to her forehead, or anyone's, to temporalily remember things, and has kept a running tab of men in SW she'd slept with, which at story's opening, just counting the Six movies: include Kennobi, Windu (which was a real challenge), Han Solo, and Tarkin, with plans to lay Wedge, Lando and Luke. Anakin wouldn't give her the time of day and Palpatine, they never even met, and she might be hoping to bag him yet as a pretty boy. I haven't decided. Job and Vinoss by this time only have a closed marriage when they have children, though Job rarely wants to sleep with anyone but Vinoss.

But like I said, these are characters for the beginnings, to ofer in information, or pithy insight to the way the Rebellion or the Empire works, or Hutt space, and generally poking gentle fun at the Universe as it has become.

[DarthSolo]

This is definitley a massive story. I didn't ever realize, at first, the size of it, with two full galaxies of alternate history, to say nothing of the philosphical/religious aspect.

But my point stands: what's the point in making Palpy pretty? Yes, she wants it in the story, but out of the context of the story, why are you doing it? Because it's "cool", because that isn't good enough, IMO. (that's why so much of fanfiction is crap, IMO, because the writers write for "cool" factors, not literary or story-telling factors) How and why does Palpatine's face lift do anything important to your plot? Because otherwise, in my mind, it's just a stunt.

[Konig15]

You make a good point Solo. Basicly it's done to both show Mary perverted sense of fun (and if I write it you'll laugh hard if it's not too bizarre for your stomach) and to demonstrate her Free Will. I know it may not make sense, but I think of my characters as automonous indivuals with minds and thoughts and feelings of their own. For instance I have at least one stormtrooper who leads a rebellion because he believes the atrocities his superiors are commiting are not the Emperor's will given the training he's recieved on the New Order and it's theory. Now this is like saying Hitler didn't want the Einsatzgruppen to kill the Jews, but many in the Wehrmatch, espeically the top bass believed that. I didn't want that, and frankly I think it disturbs the flow of my proposed story, but it's there and it's "happening." One of the most important diversions in my story is that many Imperial officers are actually given a chance to prevent a great wrong because of interference and thus the best part of the Empire squares off against the worst parts. It's a fascinating thing, tumbling through the wringer. I only hope I can put it on paper properly.

Oh and it's not two galaxies: it's one. The story starts on March 15th 41,977, with ANH starting May 25, 41,977, 40,000 years to the day Star Wars was first released. But no one believe that Teanaar is the 'Mythical Earth' or lost Notron, if you like.

[DarthSolo]

I was saying "two galaxies" not because in your story it's two galaxies, but you are drawing from two galaxies. ;)

Now, I do understand how you are approaching your characters. That's a very legitimate way of approaching them. I do that myself, to a certain extent. And now I'm conflicted! I still don't like the Palpy face lift thing. I still think it's pointless. That might change if I had the story in front of me, but I dunno. But I do believe in characters having a sort of free will of their own. Unfortunately, that doesn't always lead to good story telling.

Think of it this way. If you were writing the biography of someone you know, you wouldn't tell everything they did. You would leave out details, because they didn't help the story along, and only distracted from it. I think that's somewhat close to the situation we've got here.

[Konig15]

OK Solo, sorry for the delay, but I sorta see your point.

I could give you the scene where the 'facelift' would pay off, in Return of the Jedi. It would however give away just about every spoilre in my AU. After I post the next chapter of Last Days on the Tigris I could do that.

And tell me if this is a bad idea:
Because the Republic has been so markedly sucessful as a government (and because I don't know if there were Chancellor dictators like Palps before him that eventually restored democratic rule), there are three really big men from 'Mythical Earth' that to a digree influence the Humans in the Imperial and Rebel camps. Now this is not OUR universe. Britian for example is much stronger in the 21st century, having carved out a nation of the white parts of its Empire (Canada, New Zealand, Australia, Ireland, and in that world Patagonia) so it's a lesser superpower along with Germany and China circa 2006.

The first is Hitler. Many people believe Hitler merely represents an archtypal figure: the arrogant, evil overlord, and never existed. Palpatine has been compared to Hitler, along with many other famous despots, but mostly the Rebels stick to Zim and the Sith Lords (not knowing...)

The second is 'Wilhuff' Becker, the General who killed Hitler and saved the Third 'Rik' from the 'Naughtsies' and 'Communialists' and the Allies. Becker is admired in both camp, somewhat obscure, as the man who 'put things right,' never forgot his friends and restored what had been lost (for the Imperials: order, and glory, and the Rebels: law, the old regime [the Hohenzollern monarchy] and eventually democracy)

The third is Dajjal, Job Worthington's boss. This is how many, including Messerine want to see Palpatine. He built a great Empire in all the ledgends, out of the ashs of the War of Submission. He was brutal, and sometimes unjust, but he rebuilt the 'Mythical Earth' piece by piece, ensured water, food, and basic medicine was availible to the war devestated region. For example, his rule of what was left of Africa was notoriously cruel, but in the first 50 years, infastructure was built, schools were staffed and Africa finally emrged out of ghastly poverty. The Teanaarians say ruled for 1000 years (with the Grail) and is considered by all the Homeworld Contenders to be among the greatest rulers in the spieces history.

That's how Palpatine saw his future rule, even before he was really aware of Dajjal. So Humans are willing to give Palpatine slack, and excuse the occasional atrocity, BUT the rampant, unrepentant, totaly wanton behavior of Imperial officials is fast corroding that image. Teanaarians are sorta like Mandalorians, they pride themselves on being citizen soldiers though, they are no strangers to atrocity, but there are lines: if an orphange has combatants in it as well as children, seal it, burn it, piss on the ashes. The combatants have made it a legitimate combat zone. But if there's no combatants, just the children of the enemy, you leave it alone. The Imperials, however, do not make such a distictions readily. The Teanaarians are modeled on Romans in this regard, they don't play nice at all in war, but it's not an excuse to go hog wild and needlessly kill 'innocent' people.