Luke at End of TESB

[StarWarsFan1]

hey I was just watchin esb and when luke falls out side of cloud city, what is that thing that falls out just before him and get a small shot of it, could it be his light saber? comments?

[Rogue_0009]

I always thought it was the lightsabre.

[X-3PO]

I just thought it was one of the many pieces of gear from his belt.

[Darth Vegas]

Yeah, try pausing it's his hand and lightsaber.

[RollaFett]

Really?! Hmm, I'm gonna have to watch that movie all over again just to see that. Man, the things a SW fan has to do sometimes.

[spaceman2386]

i have to stop it and see

[Obi-Stu]

I always thought it was bits of rubbish being dumped, but
now I'll have go and check.

Thanks guys... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/butbut.gif

[Tovor]

I always thought it was a part of the weather vane he landed on that snapped off.

[Justin]

I always thought it was his hand.

[Mothman]

Originally posted by Justin@Feb 14 2003, 01:16 PM
I always thought it was his hand.
eeeewwww......gross! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif

[Whisper]

Makes sense though.

[Sgt_Jedi]

I thought I was a piece of torn fabric from his outfit.

[GaViN28x]

I thought it was his saber and hand but in the EU they make a clone of luke with his hand and the clone uses that saber so how would the emporer get it back if that was what fell out.

[Rojo]

I always thought it was some random piece of junk, I guess I'll have to watch it again.

[X-3PO]

I thought it was his saber and hand but in the EU they make a clone of luke with his hand and the clone uses that saber so how would the emporer get it back if that was what fell out.

Yeah, but Lucas doesn't follow the EU that much. Also, it could be explained, perhaps as it fell it landed on a garbage barge that was hovering just below the clouds. ???

[tunafishman]

See, I thought it was Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher's movie's careers going down the proverbial toilet!

Bada da! Thanks, I'll be here all weekend!

:roll:

Man, I need to get to bed.

[James]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[Erick Landrider]

Lukes hand was still in the giant chamber-thinger (with his light saber) for C'Boath to find

I just believe it was a piece of junk that was sucked into the vent

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sly.gif


and tunafishman, have you not heard of the movies The Big Red 1 or see his appearence on Seaquest

Nah, didn't think so

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

[Obidobi]

Originally posted by TK-007@Feb 14 2003, 03:20 AM
Yeah, try pausing it's his hand and lightsaber.
It must be some kind of rubbish, or some gear from his belt, because we don't see any hand nor lightsaber when his slide stops for a moment......
It should have been along with him before the hatch open and he starts his second slide toward the final hatch....

It must be something else......

[Madagan_Starkeeper]

Originally posted by Erick Landrider@Mar 14 2003, 10:09 PM
Lukes hand was still in the giant chamber-thinger (with his light saber) for C'Boath to find
First of all, the EU books are not Canon. Only what happened in the films is canon. So if it were his hand and lightsaber in the film, then that's that.

However, I don't believe it was his hand and lightsaber, simply because his hand had been hewn from his arm quite a bit before he leapt to his imminent doom (Too much Lord of the Rings, sorry). Anyway, I think there will always be speculation on this, and only the Flanneled One can say for certain.

[Miasmo]

In the novel it says a piece of the weather vane breaks off. But it doesn't happen as soon as he hits it, it happens when he's calling out to Leia(in the novel). I'm pretty sure it's the same thing though. Here's an excerpt.

Somewhere near the supporting stalk of Cloud City, Luke spoke again. Concentrating his mind on one whom he thought cared for him and might somehow come to his aid, he called, "Leia, hear me." Pitifully he cried out once again. "Leia."

Just then, a large piece of the weather vane broke off and went hurtling off into the clouds far below. Luke tightened his grip on what remained of the vane, and strained to hold on in the blast of air rushing at him from the pipe above.

[Greedo Boy]

I had always thought it was his hand. Hmmm...

[hermit31]

You are all wrong, this part of the movie is directly linked to episode II. The part I am referring to is when Dooku cuts off Anakins' arm. Watch the surprised look on Dookus' face, as he looks down and then up. This same look of shock and surprise is on Lukes' face, and its not because he is watching a piece of the weather vane, or his hand falling. I'm not giving the answer away, I'm sure there are others who know what is falling, but for those who don,t , go back and watch those scenes over and over until you get it like I did.

[Miasmo]

What on earth are you talking about?

[Erick Landrider]

Originally posted by hermit31@Aug 28 2003, 04:42 PM
You are all wrong, this part of the movie is directly linked to episode II. The part I am referring to is when Dooku cuts off Anakins' arm. Watch the surprised look on Dookus' face, as he looks down and then up. This same look of shock and surprise is on Lukes' face, and its not because he is watching a piece of the weather vane, or his hand falling. I'm not giving the answer away, I'm sure there are others who know what is falling, but for those who don,t , go back and watch those scenes over and over until you get it like I did.
Sounds to me like he's either high in Lucasfilm, or has no idea what he's talking about.

[hermit31]

To Miasm and Erik Landrider, much to learn you still have my young padawans. I may be high in Lucasfilm land, but at least I have a clue. If I had a huge ego I would just spell it all out for you so I could sound like a master, and not a padawan. But just like Master George I want you to think and figure it out for yourself just as I did. Being the kind person I am Erik Landrider, I will ignore your insignificant attempt at an insult and give you a clue. I can't reveal everything because doing so would be a spoiler for episode III, and wouldn't really belong here. But anyway here's your clue. Just as Anakin looses his forearm by the hand of Dooku, Luke also looses his hand,and something else, due to his choice of refusing to join Vader. I know I am sounding like a know it all, but I have searched my feelings, and everything I know about Star Wars and religious mythology tells me I am right. If you know a thing or two about religion, myth, and Star Wars this clue should be all you need to figure this mystery out, being that all three are connected.

[Obidobi]

I know I am sounding like a know it all, but I have searched my feelings, and everything I know about Star Wars and religious mythology tells me I am right. If you know a thing or two about religion, myth, and Star Wars this clue should be all you need to figure this mystery out, being that all three are connected.


WTF does religion and myth have to do with what's falling from the same as Luke in TESB....?

Being the kind person I am Erik Landrider, I will ignore your insignificant attempt at an insult and give you a clue. I can't reveal everything because doing so would be a spoiler for episode III

And how can that be a spoiler...? Beats me....!!

[PhantomX]

Originally posted by hermit31@Aug 28 2003, 05:29 PM
To Miasm and Erik Landrider, much to learn you still have my young padawans. I may be high in Lucasfilm land, but at least I have a clue. If I had a huge ego I would just spell it all out for you so I could sound like a master, and not a padawan. But just like Master George I want you to think and figure it out for yourself just as I did. Being the kind person I am Erik Landrider, I will ignore your insignificant attempt at an insult and give you a clue. I can't reveal everything because doing so would be a spoiler for episode III, and wouldn't really belong here. But anyway here's your clue. Just as Anakin looses his forearm by the hand of Dooku, Luke also looses his hand,and something else, due to his choice of refusing to join Vader. I know I am sounding like a know it all, but I have searched my feelings, and everything I know about Star Wars and religious mythology tells me I am right. If you know a thing or two about religion, myth, and Star Wars this clue should be all you need to figure this mystery out, being that all three are connected.
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif

That's plain old silly style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif My feelings :sarcasm: say "the surprised look on Dookus' face, as he looks down" is because he looks down to.. an anatomical feature ..Anakin would have, and he decided to spare it so Anakin could have children. Luke, the result of Dooku's kindness, arrives in a similar situation, but Vader isn't as kind.

Hence the falling object style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

[Erick Landrider]

Originally posted by hermit31@Aug 28 2003, 07:29 PM
Being the kind person I am Erik Landrider, I will ignore your insignificant attempt at an insult and give you a clue.
Just for the record, it was meant more as an honest statement, not an over all insult. I've seen people who pretend like they know what they're talking about just to start an argument. I had no real reason to beleive either way about you yet.

please excuse the lame comment. I'm a smart alec, and I my best to embrace it.

[Erick Landrider]

Originally posted by PhantomX+Aug 28 2003, 09:04 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(PhantomX @ Aug 28 2003, 09:04 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-hermit31@Aug 28 2003, 05:29 PM
To Miasm and Erik Landrider, much to learn you still have my young padawans. I may be high in Lucasfilm land, but at least I have a clue. If I had a huge ego I would just spell it all out for you so I could sound like a master, and not a padawan. But just like Master George I want you to think and figure it out for yourself just as I did. Being the kind person I am Erik Landrider, I will ignore your insignificant attempt at an insult and give you a clue. I can't reveal everything because doing so would be a spoiler for episode III, and wouldn't really belong here. But anyway here's your clue. Just as Anakin looses his forearm by the hand of Dooku, Luke also looses his hand,and something else, due to his choice of refusing to join Vader. I know I am sounding like a know it all, but I have searched my feelings, and everything I know about Star Wars and religious mythology tells me I am right. If you know a thing or two about religion, myth, and Star Wars this clue should be all you need to figure this mystery out, being that all three are connected.
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif

That's plain old silly style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif My feelings :sarcasm: say "the surprised look on Dookus' face, as he looks down" is because he looks down to.. an anatomical feature ..Anakin would have, and he decided to spare it so Anakin could have children. Luke, the result of Dooku's kindness, arrives in a similar situation, but Vader isn't as kind.

Hence the falling object style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif [/b][/quote]
My brain is cracking! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif

[Obi5Kenobi]

Umm, I know a decent amount about religion, Christianity at least, some mythology, and consider myself an expert on Star Wars and the answer isn't obvious to me. Let's go over what we do know though and comapare and save, shall we?

1. Anakin loses his right hand, correct?

2. Luke loses his right hand I believe also.

3. Both of them lost their lightsabers, although Anakin could just get his back after, but it wasn't even his saber (sabre?) anyway.

4. Both lost all this stuff at the hand of a Sith.

5. Both are kind of whiney, probably not related though.

6. Both were warned, by Obi Wan no less, not to take the course of action that they ultimately chose.


Luke lost his hand by the actions of his own father, unless you're saying that Dooku is Anakin's father... I don't know. Am I forgetting anything here kids?

[Miasmo]

Originally posted by hermit31@Aug 28 2003, 07:29 PM
To Miasm and Erik Landrider, much to learn you still have my young padawans. I may be high in Lucasfilm land, but at least I have a clue. If I had a huge ego I would just spell it all out for you so I could sound like a master, and not a padawan. But just like Master George I want you to think and figure it out for yourself just as I did. Being the kind person I am Erik Landrider, I will ignore your insignificant attempt at an insult and give you a clue. I can't reveal everything because doing so would be a spoiler for episode III, and wouldn't really belong here. But anyway here's your clue. Just as Anakin looses his forearm by the hand of Dooku, Luke also looses his hand,and something else, due to his choice of refusing to join Vader. I know I am sounding like a know it all, but I have searched my feelings, and everything I know about Star Wars and religious mythology tells me I am right. If you know a thing or two about religion, myth, and Star Wars this clue should be all you need to figure this mystery out, being that all three are connected.
Count Dooku did not castrate Anakin, nor did Vader castrate Luke.

EDIT: Nor did Anakin and Luke castrate themselves.

[PhantomX]

Originally posted by Miasma@Aug 29 2003, 03:27 AM
Count Dooku did not castrate Anakin, nor did Vader castrate Luke.

EDIT: Nor did Anakin and Luke castrate themselves.
lol. Castration does have something to do with religion, doesn't it? Can't remember for sure.

We can never be sure about Luke.. He doesn't have any kids in EU, does he? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

But yeah, I sincerely doubt whatever is falling has jack diddly squat to do with episode II. Or relgion or myth, for that matter. That whole thing was like a giant wind chamber, for all we know it could just have been some more of that debris that Vader was throwing at Luke.

[Obidobi]

Originally posted by PhantomX@Aug 29 2003, 05:26 PM
for all we know it could just have been some more of that debris that Vader was throwing at Luke.
Exactly......!!!

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by PhantomX@Aug 29 2003, 07:26 AM
We can never be sure about Luke.. He doesn't have any kids in EU, does he? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif
Actually, yes he does, a son, Ben Skywalker.

[hermit31]

Ok, I can see no one gets it yet. Whatever is falling would have to have fallen at the same time Luke does, due to the fact that it is falling at the same rate Luke would have been if he had not landed on the weather vane. Now that we've got that straight, it cannot be debris because one, there is nothing laying next to Luke when the hatch opens beneath him. And two, Vader stops throwing machinery at Luke almost seven minutes before he lands on the weather vane. It only takes Luke a matter of seconds to fall down into the shaft, and a few more to land on the weather vane! whatever debris did fall would have had plenty of time to make its way out. This falling debris theory just doesn't add up. Keep trying!

[Miasmo]

Not only does it confirm it's a piece of the weather vane in the novel, but it's also in the ESB script.

There is an ominous cracking sound from the base of the weather vane and a piece breaks off, falling into the clouds far below.

-CASE CLOSED-

[hermit31]

OK, here we go again with the weather vane theory. Assume too much you have Miasma. I completly understand where you are comming from, because I to once thought as you did. Until I made the connection that you still haven't. Like I said before this scene directly connects with episode II, as other scenes do also. I fully realize what it says in the book about the breaking weather vane. But, the weather vane breaking does not occur at the same time that Luke falls but later, and was never used in the movie just like the scene where Lando pulls Luke into the Falcon, as far as I know it was never even filmed. I know it is not a piece of the weather vane falling, because it clearly does not look like a piece of metal when I put the DVD on my computer and blew it up. So, I will help you out again. Going back to episode II, after Dooku cuts off Anakins' arm he looks down at something, but it is not Anakin, or Obi-Wan. This is all I will say, and I will add that I figured out what it was without blowing it up on the computer first.

[Darth Vegas]

Most likely it was his hand and his lightsaber.

He wasn't castrated and neither was Anakin, do the letters PG mean anything to you?

Logically if Anakin had been castrated he wouldn't have been able to pregnate Padme and we'd never have Luke and Leia.

[Gazelle]

Can we take up a little collection for hermit? He has been working very hard and needs a bit of a break methinks....

[Miasmo]

Originally posted by hermit31@Sep 1 2003, 01:41 AM
OK, here we go again with the weather vane theory. Assume too much you have Miasma. I completly understand where you are comming from, because I to once thought as you did.
If you really did think as I do, and you knew the 'real' answer, you would be doing more than what you are. You claim that you want us to figure it out on our own, and coming off as a jerk in the process. You should know that many people are confused about what it is, and have thought about this for years without coming up with a solid answer besides the extremely plausible weather vane theory. If you know the answer, but are just giving us these weak hints, you sound like you are lying or trying to maintain holier than thou over 'young padawans.'

So, I will help you out again.* Going back to episode II,* after Dooku cuts off Anakins' arm he looks down at something, but it is not Anakin, or Obi-Wan.
Yes, you've already stated this. And your attempts to disprove other theories are even worse than your attempt to convince us that you know the real answer.

If it turns out that I'm wrong about the weather vane, fine. If it turns out you're right about whatever it is you're insinuating, you still come off as a jerk. And we have little reason to believe otherwise since you joined about a week ago and only have 4 posts which are all in this thread. Read everything you've posted in this thread. That's how people see you and that's why you shouldn't expect them to take you seriously.

Good day.

[Gazelle]

Originally posted by hermit31@Aug 29 2003, 01:29 AM
To Miasm and Erik Landrider, much to learn you still have my young padawans.....

Assume too much you have Miasma...


Mmmmh, I'm sorry, but when you start conversing with fans who have begun to talk like Yoda its definitely time to go back to Star Trek.

[DblDwn]

It was Mark Hamill's career after Star Wars. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[hermit31]

First of all, Star Trek has went to, well you know what . And I was never a Star Trek geek to begin with. If I come off sounding like a jerk, its because not one person has said that they have gone back to view the scenes in episode II I have mentioned, so obviously those who want to know either just want the answer given to them, aren't intelligent enough to figure it out, or are too lazy to pop the DVD or video tape in their player and attempt to figure the answer out. As far as my hints go, I don't consider them to be weak at all. As a matter of fact I consider them to be very good, strong clues. I wish someone would have given me some clues like I have for everyone to see. I certainly would have taken into consideration what they had to say and investigate it for myself. Also why would I lie about anything, I don't wast my time getting on here to lie and keep you going in circles. I got on here to help you find the answer, and I have waited this long to post to be sure I know what I am talking about, istead of assuming it has to be this or that, which it obviouly is not.

[DblDwn]

You're new to the site and, just remember, you don't have to lie to kick it. We will all like you and give you the benefit of the doubt if you just be yourself. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

Just giving you a little $hit........

I haven't read this whole thread so what are these Episode II clues that you have that everyone is supposed to figure out. If you repost this stuff I'll take a guess at what you're trying to get at.

[Darth Vegas]

He's trying to say that Dooku cut off Anakin's manhood and that Vader did the same to Luke. > style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif

[Darth Vegas]

He's faulty, malfunctioning... I suggest we ignore him.

[DblDwn]

Originally posted by TK-007@Sep 1 2003, 12:38 PM
He's trying to say that Dooku cut off Anakin's manhood and that Vader did the same to Luke. > style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif
Ahhh.........the morbid, "I have too much free time", castration theory? Is that what he is saying as far as manhood goes?

If so how would that be possible since after Anakin battles Dooku he obviously feeds Padme the 'ol one eye since she pops out a couple of babies in the upcoming movie?

Yes, yes, let's ignore him and maybe he'll go away.

[Miasmo]

Originally posted by TK-007@Sep 1 2003, 02:38 PM
He's trying to say that Dooku cut off Anakin's manhood and that Vader did the same to Luke. > style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif
I suggested this, but I don't know that it's what he's trying to say since he didn't acknowledge it.

[Gazelle]

That's amazing! I've watched it a hundred times and he definitely cuts his hand off.

[hermit31]

Ok, I'm not going to repost my hints and clues, they are right there on the second page for you to see. And, no Anakin wasn't castrated, but it did give me a good laugh.

[Darth Vegas]

Oh really, then please enlighten us with you infininate wisdom oh wise one. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif

[Javen]

It means that the wheather vane is a metaphor for Lightning. So therefore lightning is the key to the Sith. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

[hermit31]

My wisdom is not infinate, but I have certainly succeeded in getting you all thinking and talking, and bringing some life back to this once dead thread. Think about this, after Dooku cuts off Anakins arm what happens to it? why doesn't he just have it reattached. I know this probably doesn't really belong here but it links with TESB, and I've been to a couple of other sites and have found nothing on the subject. If someone out there has, let me know where.

[Javen]

Actually what you say doesn't make sense. It's like saying Zam's arm getting cut off ties into Luke cutting the Wampa's arm off. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif

[Gazelle]

What the dickens is this fellow going on about????

[Gazelle]

Hermit I know you are reading this. Lets us hear your theory and then we can discuss its validity

[Gazelle]

We're waiting, brother.....

[Miasmo]

OH, the Jedi body part also have the ability to disappear when they are cut off. That's why they can't reattach Anakins. AND, the falling object in ESB is the ghost of Luke's hand. It all makes sense now.

[Gazelle]

The Ghost of Luke's hand???????

I sense a mini-series

[Darth Vegas]

No not a Ghost, it ties in with the Addams Family. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[hermit31]

In a way, I would like to open up and discuss my theory. But, for right now I am going to hold out, and hope that someone else might possibly come close to the conclusion that I have, or that someone can come up with another theory to disprove mine. I just read Miasmas post he's close very close.

[Miasmo]

And I was joking. That's scary.

[Javen]

Originally posted by hermit31@Sep 1 2003, 03:40 PM
In a way, I would like to open up and discuss my theory. But, for right now I am going to hold out, and hope that someone else might possibly come close to the conclusion that I have, or that someone can come up with another theory to disprove mine. I just read Miasmas post he's close very close.
Disprove what theory? You haven't given us one.

[Gazelle]

This whole thread is scary....

My theory is that hermi thinks that George is saying that... the natural body is restrictive to spirituality, such as the Force, and so as we become liberated from the flesh we become more spiritual and therefore more powerful.

However, we are no longer discussing Star Wars but what is in hermit's mind.

[Darth Vegas]

Hermit, when Dooku looks down and sighs he was tired from the fight, nothing more nothing less, disagree all you want, but you are readin way too far into all of this, there is no hidden meaning, and it has nothing to do with ESB

[Erick Landrider]

Originally posted by PhantomX+Aug 29 2003, 10:26 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(PhantomX @ Aug 29 2003, 10:26 AM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-Miasma@Aug 29 2003, 03:27 AM
Count Dooku did not castrate Anakin, nor did Vader castrate Luke.

EDIT: Nor did Anakin and Luke castrate themselves.
lol. Castration does have something to do with religion, doesn't it? Can't remember for sure.

[/b][/quote]
That's circumcisions. There's quite a differnce.

[Miasmo]

Castration runs rampant in much of mythology.

[hermit31]

See Miasma isn't this fun? you got to lable me as a jerk, no offence taken. And come close to what I believe is the answer, without really trying, at least so you say. You're so close keep going, I know you can come to the conclusions I have and if and when you do, I will fully explain my theory which isn't all just in my crazy mind. Together we can end this conflict, and bring order, and sanity back to this thread.

[Miasmo]

Pure force energy?

[Darth Vegas]

Excuse me, but what the f*ck does this have to do with the debris that falls past Luke in ESB. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif

[Obi5Kenobi]

Ok everybody. Go watch Galaxy Quest. I'm serious. There's a scene where the aliens are asking the actor who plays the engineer what they should do about the problem they are having, can't remember what it is. The guy says something like, "So, you continuum transfunctioner isn't working because..." and lets them answer the question. Then he says, "So, if that isn't working for this reason then..." and they fill in the blank. He keeps this up until they finally figure out the problem themselves, when in fact the actor didn't really know anything. Does this sound familiar? I think we're experiencing this right here in this thread. Throw out a crazy idea, we'll come up with solutions that could fit it, then he says, "exactly!". I wouldn't put any more time into this. Hermit, **** or get off the pot. Excuse my language.

[Erick Landrider]

I just thought of this.

It links in with the growing power in the Dark Side. Palaptine (according to the Dark Empire series) cloned himself many times, forsaking his natural body, but becoming one of the strongest sith Lords in the history of the Galaxy. Anakin lost his arm, and later had most of his body replaced by machinery, also forsaking his natural body for power. Dooku might have seen that somehow through the force and saw Anakin potential power grow. Luke lost his hand and was sent on coarse to follow his father, but resisted.

Is that close?

[hermit31]

To TK-007, I guarantee you will see what I am talking about when episode III comes out, and then you will realize the true nature of what occurs in this scene. I thought we were past the debris theory, I hope.

[Gazelle]

Originally posted by TK-007@Sep 1 2003, 09:53 PM
Hermit, when Dooku looks down and sighs he was tired from the fight, nothing more nothing less, disagree all you want, but you are readin way too far into all of this, there is no hidden meaning, and it has nothing to do with ESB
Absolutely

[Miasmo]

Originally posted by hermit31@Sep 1 2003, 03:40 PM
But, for right now I am going to hold out, and hope that someone else might possibly come close to the conclusion that I have
ok...
I just read Miasmas post he's close very close.
there.

Well??

See Miasma isn't this fun? you got to lable me as a jerk, no offence taken. And come close to what I believe is the answer, without really trying, at least so you say. You're so close keep going, I know you can come to the conclusions I have and if and when you do, I will fully explain my theory which isn't all just in my crazy mind. Together we can end this conflict, and bring order, and sanity back to this thread.

Bye. :whatsthat:

[hermit31]

To Miasma, yes pure force energy is what Anakin was created by. Remember he was created by the Midichlorians themselves. The name Anakin comes from the word An which is the Sumarian name for their unseen god, and akin means blood related. For all those old school Star Wars fans who didn't like the whole Midichlorian issue, it was there the whole time, which goes to show how much they know about Star Wars. And I personally like it. It is purely mythological.

[Gazelle]

And what the heck has that got to do with the weathervane?

[Miasmo]

Ok, are you saying that since Anakin was pure force energy his arm disappeared quickly? And the 'ghost' of Luke's hand was what was falling because Luke wasn't pure force energy, he was a product of Anakin and Padme, and his hand didn't completely disappear like Anakins arm?

[Gazelle]

I am sure these are just movies you know.....

[Erick Landrider]

Was I even close?

[hermit31]

Ok, I think it is finally time to spill some of my theory. Yes Anakins arm does dissappear, into energy. This is what Dooku is looking at when he looks down and then up with the look of shock upon his face. Wouldn't you be shocked if someone's arm turned into pure energy infront of you? This also explains why Anakin doesn't just put his arm back on, and why it is not laying anywhere on the floor when Doooku and Yoda are fighting. But it is not Lukes' hand that is falling. I hope I haven't revealed too much this isn't a spoiler thread. Anakin = Jesus. What happens to the christ when he dies, his body dematerializes and becomes pure spirt energy. It is at this point that Dooku realizes that Anakin is the chosen one. Now who else thinks I'm full of BS?

[Darth Vegas]

This is what Dooku is looking at when he looks down and then up with the look of shock upon his face.

Dooku sighs as if he's worn down from the fight or bored with it, there is no shocked look on his face and he doesn't look down at anything.

This also explains why Anakin doesn't just put his arm back on, and why it is not laying anywhere on the floor when Doooku and Yoda are fighting.

That would be because the wound was cauterized.

I hope I haven't revealed too much this isn't a spoiler thread.

Oh don't worry, you havn't revealed anything.

[Miasmo]

Finally. I can safely say that I disagree with you.

Now, are you suggesting that what is falling in ESB is pure energy, or maybe Anakin's energy/spirit that saved Luke from falling to his death?

[hermit31]

TK-007 You still don't get it? Yes the wound may be caturized but that does't explain why his arm disappears. Go back and watch the scene there is no arm to be seen. And yes, there is to a look of shock on Dookus' face.

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by hermit31@Sep 1 2003, 02:04 PM
TK-007 You still don't get it?
No it's you that doesn't get it, his arm DOESN'T dissapear and their ISN'T a shocked look on Dooku's face.

I don't need to go back and watch it, I've seen it over a 100 times by now, I'm not missing anything, your reading to far into all of this.

[hermit31]

Miasma, you may disagree with me, so let me clear things up a little. Yes it is energy that is falling, but not Anakins'. keep trying your almost there.

[Miasmo]

Ok, Luke's energy.

[hermit31]

TK-007 if your so sure Anakins' arm doesn't disappear then tell me where it is laying? It should be right next to the ramp on the Solar Sailor, but it isn't. If you blow it up and look where it should have landed there is a dark imprint on the floor. This was purposly put in later in post production, and shows that due to the intense energy being released from Anakins' arm it actually burns the floor. Don't bother respond to something which you obviously haven't fully investigated.

[DblDwn]

The reason the f*#king arm is not on the ground during Yoda and Dooku's battle is because Lucas didn't think to put the prop of a severed human limb on the ground during a kids movie. This has got to be the creme de la creme of all time reading too much into a scene and/or dialogue.

Wait, that's how the duel should have concluded. Yoda flips and spins around the room at blurring speed only to land on Anakin's arm and twist his ankle thereby allowing Dooku to escape. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif

[Gazelle]

Originally posted by hermit31@Sep 1 2003, 10:53 PM
I hope I haven't revealed too much this isn't a spoiler thread. Anakin = Jesus. What happens to the christ when he dies, his body dematerializes and becomes pure spirt energy.
When Jesus died he was buried in a tomb before rising again on the third day. He didn't dematerialise and become spirit energy!

[Gazelle]

Hermit: "I hope I haven't revealed too much this isn't a spoiler thread."

TK007 "Oh don't worry, you havn't revealed anything."


hehe - absolutely! Best line of the night!

[Gazelle]

Originally posted by DblDwn@Sep 1 2003, 11:19 PM
The reason the arm is not on the ground during Yoda and Dooku's battle is because Lucas didn't think to put the prop of a severed human limb on the ground during a kids movie. This has got to be the creme de la creme of all time reading too much into a scene and/or dialogue.

Yes, yes, yes

[Obi5Kenobi]

Ok, I have to butt in here. Are you saying that energy is falling? Falling energy is what we're talking about? Energy falling down with physical properties? Bah!

I just watched the Dooku-Anakin duel and while Anakin's arm is nowhere to be seen in the rest of the movie neither is his lightsaber. I think they just didn't put it on the ground anywhere, it's an oversight. I did watch his arm getting chopped off in slow motion and it does go flying off to Dooku's left. It certainly doesn't disappear immediately like Ben did in ANH. Craziness I say, I'm with you Bond.

[Gazelle]

Hey, can anyone believe this thread has gone to 6 pages?

Though nothing else, it has been entertaining.

Though nothing else.

[Obi5Kenobi]

Originally posted by hermit31@Sep 1 2003, 05:19 PM
TK-007 if your so sure Anakins' arm doesn't disappear then tell me where it is laying? It should be right next to the ramp on the Solar Sailor, but it isn't. If you blow it up and look where it should have landed there is a dark imprint on the floor. This was purposly put in later in post production, and shows that due to the intense energy being released from Anakins' arm it actually burns the floor. Don't bother respond to something which you obviously haven't fully investigated.
Would you mind quoting some source for this post production adding of a black spot that I can't see? Is this in the DVD commentary or some other verifiable source?

[hermit31]

Miasma, thank you, this is Lukes' spirit or soul which is decending into perdition {or hell if you want to get biblical} in a spiral. In an interview with Master George Lucas he has said that when Anakin turns to the darkside he looses his soul, what events occur that cause Anakin to fully turn to the darkside and lose his soul will be reveald in episode III. When Luke refuses to join Vader,and thus commit suicide by jumping he turns against his destiny of redeeming his father and bringing him back to the good side, hence he looses his soul. Luke has a look of shock because he sees his spirit body or soul in descent, I realize there will be those who still think I'm full of BS, but if I am right then there should be some corrolation between episode III and V to show I am right.

[DblDwn]

Contributing to nearly 6 pages of this thread has cost me my soul and I am witnessing it fall from me as I type. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/crying.gif

[Gazelle]

Yeah and me. I've hung mine on a weather vane

[Miasmo]

Originally posted by hermit31@Sep 1 2003, 05:40 PM
Miasma, thank you, this is Lukes' spirit or soul which is decending into perdition {or hell if you want to get biblical} in a spiral. In an interview with Master George Lucas he has said that when Anakin turns to the darkside he looses his soul, what events occur that cause Anakin to fully turn to the darkside and lose his soul will be reveald in episode III. When Luke refuses to join Vader,and thus commit suicide by jumping he turns against his destiny of redeeming his father and bringing him back to the good side, hence he looses his soul. Luke has a look of shock because he sees his spirit body or soul in descent, I realize there will be those who still think I'm full of BS, but if I am right then there should be some corrolation between episode III and V to show I am right.
An interesting point of view. I disagree completely.

Now, I chose to continue participating in this thread of my own volition. So the questions I have to ask myself are: Did I enjoy the road to the end? Was it worth it? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/scratchchin.gif

The answer is no. I would've had more fun debating accusations that Britney Spears had a ***** when she was born.

[hermit31]

To Obi5Kenobi No, I do not have a verifyible source on the burn mark on the floor, this is an observation that I made while trying to figure out where Anakins' arm goes to. I put the DVD in my computer and zoomed in on the area where Anakins' arm should have landed, in doing this I noticed that the area is darker and in the shape of Anakins' arm. I could be wrong but it seemed to be the most logical conclusion. It also reminded me of the Shroud of Turin which is said to be the burn mark left behind when christs body comes back to life. This, by the way has been proven to be a fake.

[Gazelle]

I have been watching the extras DVD on The Phantom Menace while we have been engaging in this nonsense, so I feel I haven't completely lost my evening.

Hey, TPM wasn't so bad really, you know. Those fights are superb.


(By the way, may I say once again, Christ did not dematerialise. He arose)

[Miasmo]

I leave this thread with the 2 excerpts I posted earlier. Have a nice day.

----
NOVEL

Somewhere near the supporting stalk of Cloud City, Luke spoke again. Concentrating his mind on one whom he thought cared for him and might somehow come to his aid, he called, "Leia, hear me." Pitifully he cried out once again. "Leia."

Just then, a large piece of the weather vane broke off and went hurtling off into the clouds far below. Luke tightened his grip on what remained of the vane, and strained to hold on in the blast of air rushing at him from the pipe above.
----
SCRIPT

There is an ominous cracking sound from the base of the weather vane and a piece breaks off, falling into the clouds far below.
----

[Obi5Kenobi]

Also, the Shroud of Turin isn't a fake. It may not be the cloth that Christ was buried in but it so far is not explainible as far as the markings on it are concerned. I don't want to be an ass, but this theory is just a theory and we'll have our proof when the next movie is out. To be honest I don't think the subject of Anakin's arm will be revisited nor Luke's. Let's wait and see.

[hermit31]

To Gazelle, yes you are correct, it is christs' body that rises. Please excuse me for that mistake. Now we all know you are right and there is no need to post it a third time. For those who are still not convinced in my theory, that is your choice. However I'm not convinced with the breaking weather vane theory because of the fact that when you blow up that scene, whatever is falling has two arms, a head and legs. If there is anyone out there who also has the DVD check it out for yourself and come to your own conclusions as I have. Seek the truth, don't listen to others. All of us will be further enlightend in May 2005.

[Gazelle]

Hermit everyone is entitled to their views - we are in the great speculation period afterall, where we can have fun with these ideas.

I don't think you're right and are looking into it too deeply, for all the reasons that have been stated by everyone above, but its been fun discussing it. Perhaps it might have been better for you to let us know your idea from the start, as not knowing was exasperating, and we could have developed the discussion a little more constructively.

Ultimately, I don't see your point of view being at all in GL mind, but it has given me a heightened appreciation of the broken weather vane, spiraling down into oblivion. It is a great moment of tension, and adds to the feeling of despair that Luke must have been feeling as he hung there, his world torn upside down by what Vader had said.

Funnily enough, despite disagreeing, I think you will probably be a great "poster" of ideas and I look forward to your next one. It was an interesting idea hermit.

[Obi5Kenobi]

Wow. I just looked at the ESB VCD file I downloaded and looked at the object that fell. It is shaped rather strangely. It does look almost humanoid, except I didn't see a head. The problem is timing. Luke falls down the shoot thingy, slides down a tube thingy and comes to a stop. Then the floor opens and he falls down and grabs onto the weathervane thing. When he's at a stop before the floor opens there is nothing there with him. Whatever fell had to have fallen after he grabs the weathervane which fits nicely that it is part of the weathervane. Unless it is a ghost hand or Luke's soul, but why would that fall at that time, and where from? A ghost hand or someone's soul just appears and falls into the clouds? It seems very unlikely, but interesting.

[DblDwn]

It boggles my mind that this thread is still going style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/banghead.gif

[Miasmo]

Must... resist to add... to... further... speculation...

I'm more than happy to let this thread die, but I have a theory that adds to the weather vane theory. I won't stir things up if no one wants to hear it though. You could always message me I suppose.

[Greedo Boy]

Originally posted by PhantomX@Aug 29 2003, 10:26 AM
We can never be sure about Luke.. He doesn't have any kids in EU, does he? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif


Actually, he does.

[Darth Vegas]

Yeah dude, I posted that already. You're a bit late.

[hermit31]

Hermit31 here again, don't think for a second I'm just going to let this issue drop. I've come back to shed further light on this subject, and prove my theory. This time I will explain how this scene in TESB ties in with myth. In mythology most solar heroes are hung up on the cross, or{crossing point}. Some examples of this are Jesus, Krishna, and Horus. In the Star Wars world this cross is represented by the weather vane, and of corse Luke is our solar hero. If you look towards the bottom of this vane it is clearly in the shape of a cross. But unlike these other solar heroes Luke does not literally die. His death is symbolic, and is shown by showing his spirit body decending in a spiral. Further visual evidence is also in this scene. If you look towards the bottom of the screen a second before it cuts away from Luke, it actually lightens, or brightens up, showing that what is falling is comming from Luke. If you have frame capture on your VCR pause it after or during the moment when Luke looks down. No falling weather vane would illuminate the entire bottom of the screen!, and this is no flaw in the film transfer it was put there on purpose. I would like to thank Obi5Kenobi for researching this on his own. I hope you read this and find it illuminating. I end this post by still saying, MUCH TO LEARN YOU STILL HAVE!

[Miasmo]

First I'd like to say that you shouldn't assume people haven't gone back and watched this scene simply because they don't mention they have.

I did go back and watch this scene, and I've watched it many times before. The bottom of the screen does get bright, but I believe that it's just a problem with the film, nothing more, nothing less.

[hermit31]

What coincidence, just as I was modifying my post to add that the brightness at the bottom of the screen could not be a flaw in the film, you posted exactly what I expected. Why do you think this is a flaw? this kind of thing would have been fixed during the special edition restorations. It is not a flaw, it is there on purpose, just like Anakins' disappearing arm. Assume too much you have.

[Erick Landrider]

Okay let's assume that you are right, that it is the spectral of Lukes hand falling. How does that effect what happens in Episode III. We already essential know (Or atleast I beleive) that Anakin is the chosen one, because he brings the force back into balance in RotJ. Are we going to see Anakin on a hospital bed with his other arm and his legs vaporized, after he falls in a volcano. Will we see a scene where Anakin loses another body part (lets not get back on the castration topic) and it dissappears in a flash of force light. The last idea would be wasteful. Lucas already had the chance to make a big deal about it, and didn't, in AOTC.

I thought you might have had an interesting insight hermit, but now I doubt that what ever your total threory is, will have anything to do with Episode III.

[Miasmo]

Originally posted by hermit31@Sep 2 2003, 07:48 PM
Why do you think this is a flaw?
Because that's what it looks like.

this kind of thing would have been fixed during the special edition restorations.
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif Riiighht. Have you SEEN how many things were left unfixed in the SE's??

[hermit31]

Erick Landrider, I never said that it was the ghost or spectral of Lukes' hand falling. And it isn't. George did hint at what happens to Anakins' arm, its written all over Dookus' face, but most people just didn't get it. I'm sure he's saving the visual for episode III, but really that should be dicussed on another thread for spoilers. And Miasma I know there are things still not fixed in the special editions, but these are special effects. The entire film print was restored and nothing as obvious as what I have mentioned happens anywhere else in the other two movies.

[Miasmo]

Hermit, the version I checked that had the brighter strip at the bottom was the SE version. I went back and checked the THX Remaster and it is not there. Granted, I have the full screen VHS version and not the bootleg DVD you seem to be viewing. And there are a number of 'defects' that can occur when you're dealing with film.

[hermit31]

Miasma, I took your post into consideration and went back and looked at the original widescreen version I have, that I got as a youngling back in 88. The bottom of the screen does brighten but it is more subtle, and is still there. I still don't believe that this is an error in the film. In the SE it is enhanced and much more obvious. I still hold to my theory. By the way, the bootleg version I have is the best you can get. It is the DVD9 version off of the laserdisc, and the detail is very good through an S-video cable. On it you can clearly see two arms, a head and legs. I also noticed something else I know is not an accident, something added just for the SE. It only appears for a split second, and I never noticed it before until now! On the video tape it is barley noticeable. You just can't see the detail on VHS. But if anyone else has this version of the DVD9 SE. It appears to the left of the object falling, in the first few frames. This is what I love about Star Wars all of the subtle hidden stuff!

[Miasmo]

Hermit, a picture of the falling object on your version would add MUCH to the debate. From what you've already said about the DVD you have, it sounds like it shouldn't be hard at all to take a pic and post it here. Since you are viewing a version of the movie that the majority of fans haven't, it would be in your best interest to show us what you've been watching.

The object I see doesn't look like a human with realistic porportions. I'll let you know what it does look like if you can post a pic of what you're seeing. I will do my best to post a pic from the clearest VHS copy I can. You have to understand though, my recesources are somewhat limited in this area at the moment. I'd have to talk to a number of friends of mine, or go out and buy a tv card for my computer. I have to pinch every penny I have right now so I don't think I'll be getting any new hardware just to feed this debate.

I have my thoughts on what the object might be in real life, not the story. I wouldn't put money on it but it's not that hard to believe. It's kinda funny actually. It reaffirms the fact that they had a sense of humor when working on the films.

[hermit31]

Miasma, I am in the process of trying to figure out how to post a screen capture, I've never done it before. If and when I figure it out, I will gladly post a picture. Don't even bother trying to do a VHS capture I'm sure it would look terrible.

[Greedo Boy]

Originally posted by TK-007@Sep 2 2003, 05:47 PM
Yeah dude, I posted that already. You're a bit late.
Well I wasn't really reading any of your stuff (or just about anybody elses for that matter)

[Miasmo]

Originally posted by Greedo Boy+Sep 3 2003, 04:47 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Greedo Boy @ Sep 3 2003, 04:47 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-TK-007@Sep 2 2003, 05:47 PM
Yeah dude, I posted that already. You're a bit late.
Well I wasn't really reading any of your stuff (or just about anybody elses for that matter) [/b][/quote]
Well you should be. Not to be rude or anything, but these are message boards. And if you read that question it shouldn't be too hard to read down a little more and see if someone answered it.

*pokes at Greedo Boy with a stick*

Don't be offended. You know I poke out of love. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[bodhisattva yoda]

greedo boy. miasma just love-poked you. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mellow.gif

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Greedo Boy+Sep 3 2003, 01:47 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Greedo Boy @ Sep 3 2003, 01:47 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'> <!--QuoteBegin-TK-007@Sep 2 2003, 05:47 PM
Yeah dude, I posted that already. You're a bit late.
Well I wasn't really reading any of your stuff (or just about anybody elses for that matter) [/b][/quote]
Yeah I knew that. That's why I posted that, as if to say what Miasma just said.

[hermit31]

OK, I know I am being a pain, but can anyone tell me how to post a screen capture? I've taken the image, now what do I do?

[Obidobi]

Originally posted by hermit31@Sep 4 2003, 01:17 AM
OK, I know I am being a pain, but can anyone tell me how to post a screen capture? I've taken the image, now what do I do?
Push the "Browse" button" in the "file attachments section" just below the "post Icons".
Find your pic at your comp, post and voila.....

[Darth Vegas]

And make sure it's under 50kb's...that is if T'bone turned uploads back on...

[Tovor]

Miasma, I wish you would go and post what your grand theory is, as I am curious.

[Miasmo]

I wouldn't call it a grand theory. And I actually want to see the picture from the laserdisc version that hermit has before I say anything.

[hermit31]

OK, I've done what Obidobi said before, and I just tried again. It comes up with an error saying that I can't upload this type of file. Now what do I try? Maybe the uploads aren't turned on as TK-007 suggested they might not be.

[Darth Vegas]

You wait until T'bone enables uploads again.

[Gazelle]

*is currently in shock for seeing his questions being posted on the OS Pablo chat*

[Greedo Boy]

Originally posted by Miasma@Sep 3 2003, 05:04 PM
*pokes at Greedo Boy with a stick*

Don't be offended. You know I poke out of love. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif
Someday you will go too far and I will be forced to tear your arm off.




style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/duel.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/saber.gif

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/joystick.gif




style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/scatter.gif

[hermit31]

This sucks! I've wasted too much time on this today. How will I know when uploads are operational again? If it doesn't happen anytime within the next week, I suggest...




style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif
...that nobody do anything bad like buying bootlegs from a website which I will not name because giving them free advertising would be bad, and this message board should in no way be affiliated with a bootleg site, because that would be bad.

[Miasmo]

Advertising those DVDs is a bad idea.

[hermit31]

Why is it a bad idea, do you think perhaps Master George might come after me with his troops to disentigrate me? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif I don't think so. Besides, I found out about them from other fans who posted their reviews on actual sites. Do you think those running this site might not like it? I think I've even seen them advertised on Jedinet before if I'm not mistaken.

[Miasmo]

Originally posted by hermit31@Sep 3 2003, 08:47 PM
Do you think those running this site might not like it?
Correct.

[hermit31]

Well, if they don't, I will refrain from posting anything further on them. They have my E-mail, they'll let me know if so.

[Darth Vegas]

Let's try to figure this one out on our own, pirating is illegal, T'bone has a good standing relationship with LFL and those involved with SW and he wants to keep it that way, I think you know what the conclusion is.

[DblDwn]

Originally posted by hermit31@Sep 3 2003, 06:47 PM
I found out about them from other fans who posted their reviews on actual sites.
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif

So you're saying that this in NOT an "actual site?"

[Gazelle]

hahaha hahhaha

[Tovor]

Yes, yes, to Miasma and Bond you listen. Your post, remember not to talk about bootlegs in your post!



My friend, I took care of the oversight in your message. We do not condone illegal bootleg actvities on this site, and by talking about that, and mentioning the bootleg site, you give them free publicity and us a bad name. Please do not post that again.

Your friendly neighborhood mod,
~Tovor

[Tovor]

Hermit, I can assure you that Jedinet never advertised a bootleg site at any time, unless the advertising space was purchased without disclosing their actual business to Jedinet. Jedinet and it's webmaster have much too much integrity to do otherwise.

[Obidobi]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[hermit31]

OK, I get the message! So when will I at least be able to put up a screenshot?

[DblDwn]

Originally posted by hermit31@Sep 3 2003, 08:42 PM
OK, I get the message! So when will I at least be able to put up a screenshot.
A screen shot of what?

Jesus dematerializing into pure energy?

[Tovor]

Soon is all I know. There are bugs to work out with the recent server change and our tech expert is working on it as I speak, more or less.

[Tovor]

Jesus dematerializing into pure energy?
Silly boy, they only had 3mm film in those days and the resolution wasn't good enough to film a detailed enough image for web downloads! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[hermit31]

DblDwn, could we get off that already? I already admitted I was incorrect, and asked to be excused for my mistake.

[bodhisattva yoda]

mistakes are unexcusable at the senate! you'll have your entire life to lement this terrible mistake!

[DblDwn]

Originally posted by hermit31@Sep 3 2003, 08:51 PM
DblDwn, could we get off that already? I already admitted I was incorrect, and asked to be excused for my mistake.
Dude, if you can't make fun of yourself and laugh at your errors then what can you do?

[Gazelle]

Oh Double Down!

hehe

We should join forces. I am sure that together we could take over the whole world.

Well, at least a small island.

An "actual" island.

[bodhisattva yoda]

he wants to join forces with you on a small island, dbldwn. proceed with your interpretation... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[DblDwn]

Is Gazelle a chick or a dude? I don't even know.

I'm kinda scared of the Crying Game possibilities here :eek:

[Gazelle]

Gazelle is MALE and mean't only a comedic alliance!

If you had adjusted your monitor brightness and changed your screen resolution, it would all have been clear.....

[DblDwn]

Originally posted by Gazelle@Sep 4 2003, 12:08 AM
Gazelle is MALE and mean't only a comedic alliance!

If you had adjusted your monitor brightness and changed your screen resolution, it would all have been clear.....
Oh yeah..........I forgot about the necessary adjustments

In that case I accept your request for a "comedic alliance" and suggest that for our first act we add as much humor through sarcasm as we possibly can.

Wait a tick...............we already do that style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[bodhisattva yoda]

the crying game scenerio would be pretty comedic.

[Miasmo]

Originally posted by Gazelle@Sep 1 2003, 07:35 PM
it has given me a heightened appreciation of the broken weather vane, spiraling down into oblivion. It is a great moment of tension, and adds to the feeling of despair that Luke must have been feeling as he hung there, his world torn upside down by what Vader had said.
I agree with Gazelle here.

Now, back to waiting for a screencap. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif



How about some music while we wait?

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/music.gif Shavin' my shoulders. I'm gettin' it all shaved off... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/music.gif

[bodhisattva yoda]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh.gif

my turn.

tall and tan and young and lovely, the girl from ipanema goes walking, and when she passes, each one she passes goes ahhhh

[Greedo Boy]

What?? What does this stuff have to do with what happens with luke and what falls in Empire?? You guys are weird...

[hermit31]

OK, I just tried that screen capture again, still won't upload, guess I'll try again tomorrow. Keep singing some good elevator music to yourselves! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sleeping.gif

[Miasmo]

We'll be waiting. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/satisfied.gif

[Erick Landrider]

So...I guess it was a weather vane that fell.

[Tovor]

Either that or one of Luke's boots fell off. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[Miasmo]

Aren't uploads turned back on? Where oh where is the screencap! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/crazy.gif

[kopernikuz]

It's part of the weathervane... he realized it and won't post the pic to make himself look silly... or he's busy photoshopping it style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

[Miasmo]

Well, if he doesn't post it in the next few days than I'm gonna take a stab at what real life object I think it is we're seeing. But I could very well be proven wrong with a pic from the superior laserdisc copy.

[Frendon]

Ok, I got here late, because honestly I don't care for this type of wild theories that are never explained in film anyway so are irrelevant, but since I have the "superior laserdisc copy" I thought i could help with the screen captures, I'm gonna post 2 first as they are on film and then one with the brightness way up so you can see it more clearly.

[Frendon]

And the super bright one:

[Miasmo]

Thanks a million, Frendon. That's pretty much how it looks on my copy. I'll let you know what object I think was used for that shot in a bit. Maybe someone can guess it.

[Tovor]

Thanks Frendon. I can't make it out, though. Difficult to see this object is.

[Seanakin]

*Shakes head*

Frendon, thanks for the illustrative work, but really...all this shows is that the object is nothing more than debris whose falling was meant to demonstrate to audiences that it was a very long drooooooooooooop.

[Frendon]

Originally posted by Seanakin@Sep 17 2003, 12:33 PM
Frendon, thanks for the illustrative work, but really...all this shows is that the object is nothing more than debris whose falling was meant to demonstrate to audiences that it was a very long drooooooooooooop.
Exactly. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[flo fett]

Originally posted by Tovor@Feb 14 2003, 09:19 AM
I always thought it was a part of the weather vane he landed on that snapped off.
Heh, I thought that too! Guess my imagination was turned to low that day. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[hermit31]

Thank you Frendon for posting the pics, even if you disagree with my thoughts on this scene. I had tried to put them up again just yesterday, with no success. I guess I just wasn't doing something right. I am still holding to my theory that this is Lukes' spirit, in decent. If you look closely there are clearly two outstretched arms, a head in the center, and legs pointing downwards. After analyzing the weather vane, I can see that there is no evidence to show that something has broken off, or it sustained damage in any way. You are all content to believe that this is a piece of debris, or weather vane, because you have no Idea what else it could be. Well, you would have a different view on things if you knew a little about myth and symbology as I do, and of coarse I know you will still not believe me. I also had said eairlier in another post that there was something else in this scene if you look closely, on the first shot that is lightend, to the side of Lukes' spirit there is a circle in the clouds, with branching tenticles coming out of it. When you go in slow motion this object in the clouds vanishes in the next shot! This I know was put there just for the special edition. I have looked for it on the original, and it is not there. This is all visual symbology, just like the phallic shaped building in AOTC on Naboo. If there is anyone out there who is not convinced that this is a piece of the weather vane, I will report back on how this scene ties in with Shimis' death in AOTC. Until then I will be content knowing I have the best alternate theory, on this subject, and you can all think whatever you want.

[Miasmo]

Originally posted by hermit31@Sep 17 2003, 07:10 PM
If you look closely there are clearly two outstretched arms, a head in the center, and legs pointing downwards.
If you look closely you can come to one conlusion that it might be that. There is nothing clear about it. It sounds like you're insulting our intelligence.

After analyzing the weather vane, I can see that there is no evidence to show that something has broken off, or it sustained damage in any way. You are all content to believe that this is a piece of debris, or weather vane, because you have no Idea what else it could be.
You're correct. I noticed this as well. The weather vane seems to be in tip top shape. There is nothing broken off. I still believe that theoretically the object was supposed to be a weather vane to show, as many have said, the long drop and help us feel what Luke was feeling.

Well, you would have a different view on things if you knew a little about myth and symbology as I do, and of coarse I know you will still not believe me.
That's a pretty ignorant assumption, hermit. Many of us know a litte, or a lot, about myth and symbology and still think your theory is false.

I also had said eairlier in another post that there was something else in this scene if you look closely, on the first shot that is lightend, to the side of Lukes' spirit there is a circle in the clouds, with branching tenticles coming out of it. When you go in slow motion this object in the clouds vanishes in the next shot! This I know was put there just for the special edition. I have looked for it on the original, and it is not there.
I believe you're yet again overanalyzing something so you can apply it to your own theory. Go for it though. The same thing could be said for me when I tell you what the object looks like.

If there is anyone out there who is not convinced that this is a piece of the weather vane, I will report back on how this scene ties in with Shimis' death in AOTC.
Please do. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sly.gif

Until then I will be content knowing I have the best alternate theory, on this subject,
Your confidence will be your undoing.

and you can all think whatever you want.
And so we shall.

[Erick Landrider]

How is this thread still alive? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/mellow.gif

[Miasmo]

It is the will of the force.

Or maybe the high sugar content.

[Erick Landrider]

I sense a great sugar rush coming on.

[hermit31]

OK, Miasma I will explain my thoughts on how this scene ties in with Shimis' death, being that your the only one who replied wanting to know, or acted like you cared. Then I would like to know what you think is falling. In AOTC when Anakin is overlooking the Tusken camp, we are shown the Tatooine moons. This moonlight is clearly shinning directly down on the camp, indicating that Shimi represents the moon goddess, Mary-Isis. Anakin who represents the sun is shown falling from the cliff edge symbolicly indicating the suns decent into darkness. In TESB it is Luke who gets hung up on the cross, in AOTC it is Shimi, a reversal among others in AOTC. Shimi is shown tied to a wooden cross. In TESB Luke calls upon the moon goddess Leia to help him, in AOTC Shimi calls upon the sun, Anakin to help her. Obviously, Shimi dies and Luke doesn't, at least not literaly. As I said before Lukes' death is symbolic. Luke rises to the highest point, Cloud City, representing the suns highest point in the sky at noon. And after his temptation by his father he sacrificies himself, like the christ, but he doesn't die because he has yet to fulfill his destiny. Instead he goes through a rebirth after learning the truth and accepting his destiny, this is shown in ROTJ symbolically by his wearing of black, the color of death and change. Historically I believe this is showing the rise of the male solar cults and religions,{most notably christianity} and the death of the goddess and female power in lunar cults and religions.

[Miasmo]

Hermit, I'm sorry but that sounds like jibberish. Your theories are drifting so far away from anything logical or pheasable that I'm growing more tired of you with every post. This is not a good thing.

What scenes you've described could be interpreted countless times resulting in countless theories that would be every bit as interesting as the next. It is not hard to do, and I will show you this in time.

Quick question regarding your theory though, although I don't know why I bother sometimes. Why does Leia represent the Moon Goddess?

And I am just about to let you know what I think the object used is(you can play the waiting game too, cant you). It is speculation as well, but it's a little more reasonable in my opinion.

[hermit31]

Miasma, Leia represents the moon goddess because this goes back to egyptian mythology. Luke represents Horus, the reincarnation of Osirus, whose mother in egyptian myth is Isis, who is Padme, and Leia represents the reincarnation of Isis, which is why I believe we may see the death of Padme wheather literal or symbolic in episode III. In the egyptian story it is said that Isis and Osirus are from the same soul and will reincarnate at the end of the age of Aquarius to bring peace and love to the world. This is what episodes 4,5, and 6 are all about. In TESB it is shown that Luke and Leia have an attraction for each other which seems odd, when we find out Leia is Lukes' sister, if you don't know what is going on. It is easily understood when you know that Luke and Leia are reincarnations of Anakin and Padme stemming from the original egyptian myths, and there love for each other never died. I may sound like a know it all but I am here to help you understand, so I will kindly recomend that you read some info from someone I have learned much from. Jordan Maxwell, he is an expert in religious myth and astrotheology, and knows George Lucas. If you embark on this journey of learning about astrotheology, and don't know much about it, prepare to unlearn what you have learned.

[Miasmo]

Thank you for clarifying. I still think you are reading too much into it. I'll post my conclusive statement about 'The Scene' later tonight.

[Miasmo]

Alright. This is my final comment on this subject. Honest style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif .

Something fell from Luke when he hit the weathervane beneath cloud city. I believe it to be 'in theory' a piece of the weathervane. I realize that the weathervane is still fully intact. I feel the piece was shown descending to give a sense of fear and desperation to the scene.

Now, story aside, I am willing to speculate on what the actual object used for this scene was. Take it as you will, I'm not looking to make believers out of you. So, what do I think it is?

A weathervane. Wait now, let me explain. I think it's a real life weathervane, rooster and all. It looks to me like a rooster or bird of some sort perched on a rod. Go look at some pictures of weathervanes and you'll see where I'm coming from. It would be funny if they did actually put this in, slighty disguised. They new that a weather vane broke off in the novel and script, so they figured they'd have some fun and stick a real weathervane in since the general audience wouldn't be able to tell what it was. I could be wrong. It doesn't really matter though.

I firmly believe that there was nothing spiritual about the object that dropped and if you are intent on making the spiritual theory work then maybe your efforts would be more productive if they were poured into something like fan fictions. When looking back on the SW movies, I think you'll find enough complexity and symbolism already in place. Adding these elaborate theories would detract from the magic that has already been given to us, or maybe just replace it with different magic(let's call it blak majik style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif ).

Please enjoy the movie.

Bienvenidos.

[hermit31]

Miasma, you make me laugh, a falling rooster!, this is the best one yet! But, I can see why you would see that. It does almost look like a bird perched on a bar, but only in that one freeze frame shot. Yesterday you said that I was wrong to assume that no one on this thread knows much about myth and symbology, but you yourself proved me right! There has been no one who has said anything intelligent about the mythological connections I have pointed out. Why? because THEY DON'T KNOW JACK! All I get are lables and judgements thrown at me like crazy, illogical, inpheasable, and jibberish. Of coarse my thoughts are going to sound like these discriptions when you don't know where I am comming from to begin with. Do yourself a favor and educate yourself about astrotheology. Take the red pill, then you will see where I am comming from. There is a great amount you can learn on the web, on this subject for free. So, do a web search educate yourself and then come back and look at what I have said here, I guarantee you will see things from a completely different point of view, because really this is what it has come down to, everything depends on our point of view. I will end this by still saying MUCH TO LEARN YOU STILL HAVE! EVEN THE OLDER MORE EXPERIENCED ONES.

[Miasmo]

Originally posted by Miasma@Sep 18 2003, 12:49 AM
I'm growing more tired of you with every post.
Yep. With every post.

But I'm willing to continue this topic if you are, hermit. I could just as easily walk away from it though.

It's your call.

[hermit31]

I have nothing else further to add, except that I hope you do take my advice and learn about astrotheology, because it's what Star Wars is all about. I'm out of here for now.

[kopernikuz]

Originally posted by hermit31@Sep 18 2003, 02:43 PM
I have nothing else further to add, except that I hope you do take my advice and learn about astrotheology, because it's what Star Wars is all about.
And silly me all this time thought it was about a space adventure... boy was I duped. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

[Miasmo]

Good day then.

[Erick Landrider]

Originally posted by Erick Landrider@Sep 17 2003, 11:50 PM
I sense a great sugar rush coming on.
^The next person to post was hermit with more symbolism stuff, leading to a whole new discussion. I am good.

Any way, I think that if it were someone like M. Night Shymalan(sp) or if this was a Greek epic being adapted for the screen, then i might buy into all of the symbolism and alagorical themes that you're talking about. But alas this is Star Wars, and based on the other films that Lucas has done, I just can't see him writing something this deep, and if he did it would be easy for me to imagine him screwing it up and confusing the audience.

[hermit31]

Erick Landrider, if you want to watch other Lucas films with deep symbolism just watch THX-1138, or any of the Indiana Jones films. Go back and watch these films! You obviously don't see whats going on, and are underestimating Master Georges' intelligence.

[Erick Landrider]

I havn't seen THX-1138, but I know the basic premise ( I won't say anything else until after I see it), but the Indiana Jones films I have seen and enjoyed thoroughly. But I didn't take notice of any deep symbolism. While I wasn't looking for it, I wouldn't be suprised at any of it in those films. But what your talking about with Anakin is just not making hardly any sense, and it's not just because I'm not deep into the films or because I don't have a great knowledge of mythology and epic sagas.

Just out of curiousity, what are some symbols that you saw in Indiana Jones.

(and whats with the Master George thing?)

[hermit31]

Erick Landrider, I'm not going to get into an Indiana Jones discussion, being that these threads are supposed to be about Star Wars. And the whole Master George thing is just my way of showing respect. You say that I'm not making any sense reguarding Anakin, like I told Miasma this is probably because you don't know about astrotheology. If you can manage to not be disrespectful or make fun of my ideas,{I saw what you posted about Jangos' head turning into energy, it did make me laugh}, I will try to clairfy my thoughts on any question you have.

[hermit31]

Hermit here again, I earlier stated that Padme was Isis, this is partially incorrect. So I will now clarify this issue, please bear with me. Shimi represents Isis, or the virgin mother of Jesus, Padme represents{from the biblical account} Mary Magdalene. In the account of St. John we are told there are three Marys present at Christs crucifixtion. Mary the mother of Jesus, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the wife of Cleophas. These three Marys are represented symbolicly in AOTC by the three shinning moons in the night sky on Tatooine, as Anakin overlooks the Tusken camp. All three marys represent the lunar feminine aspect. The third Mary I believe we will be introduced to in episode III, who I think must be Leia, being that I have not noticed any other female character in episodes I or II that could represent her. I hope this clears things up a bit, for those who are interested.

[Seanakin]

The problem with Indy comparisons is the influence of Spielberg, who I think is a lot more into full frontal symbolism than his buddy George.

[Miasmo]

It's me again. Long time no see...ahem...anyways...

I'm gonna get right down to business, hermit.

It does almost look like a bird perched on a bar, but only in that one freeze frame shot.
No. I've watched it time and time again, frame by frame. It looks almost exactly the same in every frame during the rotation. But like I said, you don't have to believe it. It doesn't matter.

Yesterday you said that I was wrong to assume that no one on this thread knows much about myth and symbology, but you yourself proved me right! There has been no one who has said anything intelligent about the mythological connections I have pointed out. Why? because THEY DON'T KNOW JACK!
I should've been more clear. I meant it was wrong to assume that nobody that has read your theory knows much about myth and symbolism. Just because people don't post here doesn't mean they aren't reading the thread. You don't need to disprove individual aspects of a theory to disagree that it is part of the story. You can look at what is in the movies, and what symbolism is in place and point out that a particular fan theory detracts from what was actually intended. There is no need to find inconsistencies within the theory itself, you seem to be doing that on your own just fine.

All I get are lables and judgements thrown at me like crazy, illogical, inpheasable, and jibberish.
First let me say that the word jibberish shouldn't have been used. I apologize for that. I should've used the word rubbish. I stand by that word and the other words I used, as they are intended to describe the existence of the theory in general in the story. They aren't describing the meat of the theory, just the fact that there was a theory at all that was being pasted over what we've held to be true for some time.

I haven't tried to be mean to you, hermit. I've mocked you a little bit, but all in good fun. You yourself tell us we have much to learn, and that we must unlearn what we have learned. You do your share of poking fun. But your post that the above quotes are taken from sounds rude and condescending. I'm sure there are plenty of people who attack you with verbal abuse for your proposed theory, but am I one of them?

It would be wise to think a moment about who in this thread has paid the most attention to you and has had the most patience with you.

And for the record, my point about fan fiction wasn't meant as an insult. You seem to be able to find oodles of symbolism in the simplest of scenes. That's creative. I don't care what anyone else says. This could be a great ally of yours if you could use it productively.

[spaceman2386]

this is the best pic i could get of it and i still don't know what it is. looks like it is in the shape of a X. It could be a tool, his hand and lightsaber, and just some trash to show (us) how far down it would be if he fell.

[Sluggo]

However, I don't believe it was his hand and lightsaber, simply because his hand had been hewn from his arm quite a bit before he leapt to his imminent doom

Still, this doesn't prevent it from being his hand. It was probably sucked up the same way Luke was. Once the vents had enough debris in them, they got dumped. The hand and saber combo (was the hand still clutching the saber?) didn't have enough weight to trip the eject button.

[hermit31]

Sluggo, read all my previous posts on this issue. It couldn't have been his hand, because whatever is falling would have to have fallen at the same time Luke did. And there is nothing next to him when the shute opens.

[Sluggo]

Oh, wait. Yup. You're right. I bet it was the shoe from the asteroid field. or maybe the 1138 in Jedi.

Nothing cooler than being wrong. Then you can fix the problem and be right. How cool is that?

[Darth Barrister]

It was intended to be his hand. period.

[hermit31]

Originally posted by Darth Barrister@Sep 26 2003, 12:42 AM
It was intended to be his hand. period.

Did you even look at the screen caps on page 9? What is falling clearly isn't his hand for all the reasons I have explained before. I would be more willing to accept Miasmas' "falling rooster" theory over it being Lukes' hand at this point.