Is it too much to expect realism?

[Konig15]

OK, I've been having debates with people and it seems we aren't even on the same planet. OK, I don't give a rat's ass about theme, scene, story arc drama and all that crap. I don't even care about whether Star Wars is really Sci-Fi or Fantasy (it will always be sci-fi for me, albeit soft sci-fi). I want REALISM. The Technology, fine, throw in the Force, I'm not norrowminded on what's possibly real. But I do EXPECT people to behave logicaly. I expect people to make mistakes, I expect people to have loyalties, especially misplaced ones. I expect people to want things they shouldn't have.

Here's one complaint: no internet. Now in the movies that's not pertenent, and most of the EU was written before the internet became big, but there's no intergalactic information exchange which is, in my opinion BULL$H!T! There's an unbelievable market for that kind of thing from researchers to blogers and where there's a market, there will be a product, and I expect after 35,000 years of hyperdrive, SOMEONE would have figured out how to do this. To say Holonet is ONLY FOR GOVERNMENT AND CORPORATIONS is hooey. Fact is, cost despersed among countless trillions would make Holonet hosting possible for a petense.

No body knows about the Force. No No No! If the Jedi/Sith War were a cladestine war like the spy of the Cold War, then I could except it, but considering the Sith nearly conquered the Republic on three seperate occasions, AT LEAST, the very idea this would be overlooked is atrocitous. It's like we had three World wars with Nazis and most people STILL haven't heard of "Mein Kampf" Ay ay ai.

And the Padme/Anakin Romance. I DO NOT CARE ABOUT TRADGEDY AND/OR DRAMA!!! I SUFFERED THROUGH 'ROMEO AND JULIET' AND CONSIDER IT THE WORST OF SHAKESPEARE'S PLAYS! (The normal contender for that, Titus Andronicus I put near the top just on entertainment value). I want, no NEED that romance to make sense. And I want Anakin to have better reasons to join Palpatine, and he has plenty of reasons to believe the Republic a failed goverment, but he never expresses these on Mustafar because God forbid the bad guys have a F***ing point! :mad:

I just feel like I'm not making sense to people. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe not?:confused:

[Rabid Whiphid]

What do you mean they don't have the internet in the SW galaxy? In Episode 2, during the scene where Obi Wan is in the Jedi Archives talking to the librarian, you can clearly see Shaak Ti in the background, checking her e-mail. Or at least that's what it looks like she's doing!! :D

[Konig15]

What do you mean they don't have the internet in the SW galaxy? In Episode 2, during the scene where Obi Wan is in the Jedi Archives talking to the librarian, you can clearly see Shaak Ti in the background, checking her e-mail. Or at least that's what it looks like she's doing!! :D

Well, that's what they keep telling me in the EU section. Good eyes man, I didn't notice that.

[csr74]

Possibly there´s something like the Internet, though mostly are only Planet-wide (or even System-wide), and ussually aren´t connected between them, with the exception of great corporate nets or official ones. And not everybody will have an open and suitable access to them. Even to the normal system. It wouldn´t be weird that most info on everywhere else in the Galaxy was obtained through News programmes...which don´t neccessarily interest all the people. In a way is a very isolated Universe, out-world affairs don´t seem to get much attention.

[Rabid Whiphid]

I wonder if in the SW galaxy they have a website forum where they talk about us Earthlings, complain that our world isn't realistic enough, debate about whether our life experiences are "canon" or not, argue that our historical events would be more entertaining if they had happened in different ways, and rage about how many of our wives and girlfriends are "sexist characters". Ha!

[JediBendu]

Here's one complaint: no internet. Now in the movies that's not pertenent, and most of the EU was written before the internet became big, but there's no intergalactic information exchange which is, in my opinion BULL$H!T! There's an unbelievable market for that kind of thing from researchers to blogers and where there's a market, there will be a product, and I expect after 35,000 years of hyperdrive, SOMEONE would have figured out how to do this. To say Holonet is ONLY FOR GOVERNMENT AND CORPORATIONS is hooey. Fact is, cost despersed among countless trillions would make Holonet hosting possible for a petense.


I doubt it - the cost wouldn't be dispersed, it would be amplified by the size of the net. You'd have to have tranceivers in hyperspace permanently.

[JMAS]

Why couldn't there be a galaxy-wide "internet"? Yes, there would have to be tranceivers and whatnot spread throughout the galaxy. There already are. The holonet. Every time Nute Gunray or General Grievous communicated with Palpidious' hologram, he wasn't just in the next room. He was half-way across the galaxy on Coruscant.

Since I'm one who does read and very much enjoys the EU (If you don't, then just disregard this) there are references in different novels where a character (Luke, or Leia, or Mara) will access information from some databank or another on Coruscant, or Obroa-skai from Yavin, or wherever else in the galaxy they happen to be. Just because it isn't called "The Internet" in the SW universe doesn't mean the equivalent technology doesn't exist.

[jayce76]

Star Wars is a 1930's Japanese / Western / Flash Gordon space fantasy seial . . . .


This board is just silly . . .

[The Arbiter]

What do you mean they don't have the internet in the SW galaxy? In Episode 2, during the scene where Obi Wan is in the Jedi Archives talking to the librarian, you can clearly see Shaak Ti in the background, checking her e-mail. Or at least that's what it looks like she's doing!! :D

But you don't know what Shaak Ti is doing; whether she's just accessing something on a planetary net, in the Jedi Archives, or whatever. The fact that there are physical Jedi archives that Obi-Wan has to physically go to suggests that there is no galaxywide information network that encompasses all information.

Konig15, if you don't care about plot, drama, and whatnot, you're looking for hard sci-fi. SW is not hard sci-fi. There are imposed technological constraints in the SW universe. The inhabitants of the SW universe are not gods, they have not achieved absolute technological mastery, and money and economics alone won't help overcome technological constraints, or we would have working fusion plants and hydrogen fuel cars by now. Just because the Republic has existed for 25,000 years doesnt mean that they might have reached a point where cheap and casual informational channels exist. Channels exist! But only the privileged get access to them, the rich, the powerful, corporate or military or governmental channels. They are freely available, but not affordable, and usually, not worth the expense. THAT's economics for you. If Google cost you $10 everytime you wanted to search something on it, I don't think you'd waste money on it unless it was very important.

These technological constraints (to me) make the SW galaxy the wonderful realm it is. Just because you can't pass up stylistic constraints for your self-made assumptions of SW technology doesnt mean SW cant be enjoyed. Of course, obvious logical plot-holes cannot be avoided, because that is a stylistic thing. But accepting the constraints of SW technology is another thing entirely. Isolation is one of the features of the SW universe, and its ok to question why from an in-universe perspective, but criticizing the SW universe because it doesnt have warp drive or phasers is not.

Why couldn't there be a galaxy-wide "internet"? Yes, there would have to be tranceivers and whatnot spread throughout the galaxy. There already are. The holonet. Every time Nute Gunray or General Grievous communicated with Palpidious' hologram, he wasn't just in the next room. He was half-way across the galaxy on Coruscant.

Since I'm one who does read and very much enjoys the EU (If you don't, then just disregard this) there are references in different novels where a character (Luke, or Leia, or Mara) will access information from some databank or another on Coruscant, or Obroa-skai from Yavin, or wherever else in the galaxy they happen to be. Just because it isn't called "The Internet" in the SW universe doesn't mean the equivalent technology doesn't exist.

Correct. But Gunray and Sidious aren't exactly normal people. They can afford it, so they use it. But normal people can't. The HoloNet is an information bottleneck, where titanic amounts of information are dispersed by corporations. There is no individual level discourse beyond what the rich can afford. Its like the ansible in Orson Scott Card's Speaker series. Because there is an informational bottleneck, the public, especially in the Core, is swayed by these corporations; they wouldn't have the leisure to waste large amounts of money to research something the Republic HoloNet tells them for no charge whatsoever. But this is not a total isolation. The HoloNet can be hijacked, but only by those who know how. That's how the Alliance managed to pirate their Free Republic all over the HoloNet.

Besides, when the Empire took over the HoloNet, they nationalized the HoloNet and restricted its use. Whats so inexplicable about that? The HoloNet is not analogous to the internet, where information is channeled at minimal cost. There is no online culture in the SW galaxy. The Holonet is more like the TV than anything else, where information is sorted for the public, where only the richest corporations can afford to control the flow of information to all.


And the Padme/Anakin Romance. I DO NOT CARE ABOUT TRADGEDY AND/OR DRAMA!!! I SUFFERED THROUGH 'ROMEO AND JULIET' AND CONSIDER IT THE WORST OF SHAKESPEARE'S PLAYS! (The normal contender for that, Titus Andronicus I put near the top just on entertainment value). I want, no NEED that romance to make sense. And I want Anakin to have better reasons to join Palpatine, and he has plenty of reasons to believe the Republic a failed goverment, but he never expresses these on Mustafar because God forbid the bad guys have a F***ing point! :mad:

I just feel like I'm not making sense to people. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe not?:confused:

I liked the play. So do alot of people. You brought up an interesting analogy there, because, like Romeo and Juliet, and Orsino, Anakin and Padme are more in love with love rather than with each other. Love's fools, all. And if that was Luca's intent, I can see why he was so pleased with the depiction o Anakin's possessiveness and brutality to Padme and that little romantic thing earlier. The dialogue is so faux Shakespearean - but if a teenage romance flick were to spout Romeo's words under a balcony, it would be panned if it weren't a spoof.

Anakin did join Palpatine, because he wanted "Peace, Order and Justice". Its Luca's failing for not stressing that sufficiently I agree. But that element was there.

[James]

Star Wars isn't hard sci-fi. If you want that, go watch Star Trek. SW is about love, drama and characters which just so happen to be in a space setting.

[Vesper]

OK, I've been having debates with people and it seems we aren't even on the same planet. OK, I don't give a rat's ass about theme, scene, story arc drama and all that crap. I don't even care about whether Star Wars is really Sci-Fi or Fantasy (it will always be sci-fi for me, albeit soft sci-fi). I want REALISM. The Technology, fine, throw in the Force, I'm not norrowminded on what's possibly real. But I do EXPECT people to behave logicaly. I expect people to make mistakes, I expect people to have loyalties, especially misplaced ones. I expect people to want things they shouldn't have.

Here's one complaint: no internet. Now in the movies that's not pertenent, and most of the EU was written before the internet became big, but there's no intergalactic information exchange which is, in my opinion BULL$H!T! There's an unbelievable market for that kind of thing from researchers to blogers and where there's a market, there will be a product, and I expect after 35,000 years of hyperdrive, SOMEONE would have figured out how to do this. To say Holonet is ONLY FOR GOVERNMENT AND CORPORATIONS is hooey. Fact is, cost despersed among countless trillions would make Holonet hosting possible for a petense.

No body knows about the Force. No No No! If the Jedi/Sith War were a cladestine war like the spy of the Cold War, then I could except it, but considering the Sith nearly conquered the Republic on three seperate occasions, AT LEAST, the very idea this would be overlooked is atrocitous. It's like we had three World wars with Nazis and most people STILL haven't heard of "Mein Kampf" Ay ay ai.

And the Padme/Anakin Romance. I DO NOT CARE ABOUT TRADGEDY AND/OR DRAMA!!! I SUFFERED THROUGH 'ROMEO AND JULIET' AND CONSIDER IT THE WORST OF SHAKESPEARE'S PLAYS! (The normal contender for that, Titus Andronicus I put near the top just on entertainment value). I want, no NEED that romance to make sense. And I want Anakin to have better reasons to join Palpatine, and he has plenty of reasons to believe the Republic a failed goverment, but he never expresses these on Mustafar because God forbid the bad guys have a F***ing point! :mad:

I just feel like I'm not making sense to people. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe not?:confused:

You can sit there and 'want' and 'need' all you want, but it aint going to get you anywhere.

[csr74]

Well, that's what they keep telling me in the EU section. Good eyes man, I didn't notice that.


And Obi-Wan looks as if he was wondering what would happen to him if Jocasta Nu catches him sending e-mails to female Jedi instead of searching for whatever info he should be looking for. :lol:

Now, take into account that Internet is (in real life) only planet-wide, and even so it doesn´t encompass the entire planet in the same measure. It´s quite probable there are information networks in each planet, or even, in each system, which might be of relatively common use (though not as much as Internet nowadays). It seems the SW Universe is a more "active" one, if you need information, you just go where it is, you don´t lurk in the Net...possibly it´s easier to get transportation, at least for those who might be looking for any bit of info somewhere else in the Galaxy (and we must take into account that we don´t see what normal people do...we see the powerful and rich, or even both, or military or spies). Another possibility is that the SW equivalent to Internet ísn´t as complete as this last is...there are lots of info out of Internet, and in SW it seems there is even more.

[jayce76]

This thread needs to be closed!!!

[Rabid Whiphid]

Star Wars is a 1930's Japanese / Western / Flash Gordon space fantasy seial . . . .


This board is just silly . . .



Totally. That's kinda what I was hoping to point out with my goofy posts in this thread. Haha.

[Rabid Whiphid]

But you don't know what Shaak Ti is doing; whether she's just accessing something on a planetary net, in the Jedi Archives, or whatever. The fact that there are physical Jedi archives that Obi-Wan has to physically go to suggests that there is no galaxywide information network that encompasses all information.


Yeah, who cares, I was just kidding anyway.

[jayce76]

I'm really not sure why this thread is allowed to live myself , Rapid . . .

[Konig15]

Jayce, at the risk of flaming, you you stop making an a$$hole of yourself, stalking my posts and making stupid, pointless, and generally disrespectful comments? Please?

And yes, this is a legit question, because it is about how fantastic the GFFA can be expected to be and I am of the opinion, the more realistic it is, the better the universe and the cooler the Jedi by comparision.

[DblDwn]

You want realism in a sci-fi movie? What's next? Are you going to want honest leaders in government?

It sounds more as if you want your cake and eat it too. If that is the case then I suggest you head on over to the bakery because you're not going to get anywhere here.

But here is the most obvious follow up question. You do know this is a movie right? If you want realism watch C-Span. I cannot stand people that watch a movie, even those "based on true stories", and expect absolute realism. It's Hollywood. It's entertainment. It's fiction. In this case it's even science fiction. My advice is to stop expecting that which you cannot receive and simply just enjoy it for what it is: entertainment. If it doesn't entertain you then try something different like golf or needle point.

[Rabid Whiphid]

Jayce, at the risk of flaming, you you stop making an a$$hole of yourself,



Do they still "warn" people on this forum for bad behavior? At one point they did, and I got "warned" for calling a nerd a nerd. My understanding is that after a certain number of "warnings" you get kicked off the forum and can't post anymore. So, maybe you didn't know that, Konig but I thought you might like to know that this could happen to you if you start name calling and throwing around cuss words... even implied cuss words. Just a friendly warning from me so you don't get an unfriendly warning from the folks who run this forum.

[jayce76]

Kong15 . . .


I'm sorry I got you upset , I just think this is a silly pointless thread for something that has no basis in reality . . .

I mean the movie start out A LONG TIME AGO IN A GALAXY FAR, FAR AWAY . .

Or did you fail to notice , if you want reality mabie you should watch the news . . .

[DblDwn]

To be fair the news, depending on which channel you are watching, can be as much fiction as Star Wars.

[JediBendu]

Kong15 . . .


I'm sorry I got you upset , I just think this is a silly pointless thread for something that has no basis in reality . . .

I mean the movie start out A LONG TIME AGO IN A GALAXY FAR, FAR AWAY . .

Or did you fail to notice , if you want reality mabie you should watch the news . . .

Totally. That's kinda what I was hoping to point out with my goofy posts in this thread. Haha.


If you don't like the board then there's a heaps out there for a fanboy to choose from.

If you can't contribute anything to the thread then don't post.

[Rabid Whiphid]

If you can't contribute anything to the thread then don't post.





Oh, lighten up. Somebody asked a (arguably) silly question and received a few silly answers in return. No crime in that. And (at least my) silly answers were not intended to be mean or to ridicule, only to poke fun a little. People have certainly given me that treatment on this forum when I've made a silly comment and I've never gotten upset about it. If you aren't allowed to have fun and enjoy some casual, friendly conversation on this forum, then what is the point of it? Chill out and if the original poster was offended let him (or her) speak for themselves.

Sorry too if your remark wasn't meant for me, but that was my impression, based on the way you broke up the quotes in your post.

[Obi-wannabe]

Do they still "warn" people on this forum for bad behavior? At one point they did, and I got "warned" for calling a nerd a nerd. My understanding is that after a certain number of "warnings" you get kicked off the forum and can't post anymore. So, maybe you didn't know that, Konig but I thought you might like to know that this could happen to you if you start name calling and throwing around cuss words... even implied cuss words. Just a friendly warning from me so you don't get an unfriendly warning from the folks who run this forum.

There are nerds on this site? :eek: I find that hard to believe.

[Obi-wannabe]

What do you mean nobody knows about the force? The sith nearly conquered the republic 3 x?

[Konig15]

Oh, for the record, I don't mind silly answers, I was expecting them, but I was hoping, they'd have some wit and teeth in them and not be drive-by stupid comments. Jayce, no hard feelings are meant. Life's too short to make enemies on the Internet. :)

[jayce76]

O.K. . . . .

No worries mate . . .

[csr74]

Possibly it would´ve been better to rephrase it like this:

The SW universe has its own rules, and these aren´t neccessarily the same as those of real world. Therefore, expecting that it works along the same lines as our world may be misleading. There are certain things that are different from what they would´ve been had the SW Universe a direct development from our own (Internet...). One of these main features of the SW Universe is the relative isolation between planets. It helps to give it the "adventure flavor" it has. It wouldn´t be so interesting if all stories just consisted of lurking in Websites for info!

[jayce76]

I can rephrase things myself thank you . . . .

[Ripley]

Do you mean psychological realism or physical realism?

[Konig15]

I mean psychological realism. I can accept the plausibility of just about anything: dragons, Dune's Sand Worm with no viable means of nutrition or lesser biological lifeforms to have evolved from.

But think in Star Trek for a sec:
Vulcans have had War[ from as long ago as 900BC, and at least from circa 1000 AD, and they STILL haven't conquered the universe? The Cardassians have had warp since 1900, and they're still not as big as the Federation? And the Ferangi are supposed to be a power when their population is limited to the Homeworld, because they wpon't let females off-world? Come'on, and then the Humans, the Johnny-come-latelies even among the Federation members totally dominate it and seem to make up a plurality, if not majority even though they've only had warp for two or three centuries? Christ Almighty. Then there's the whole secular-humanist, (fools) Communist (scum) ****fest. First Star Trek was cool, but the Draka series (Alternate History by a fellow named Sterling) is more plausible. However, I really, really liked the Cardassians; they were the only people, even when bad, who made a lick of sense.

I like the whole concept of the Jedi and the Sith. It's just the rest of the universe operates under a slightly RETARDED political arrangement. To a very small degree, I'm willing to overlook stupidity in LOTR because of the essentially medevial techno/social environment. See Howitshouldhaveended.com's take on LOTR to understand what I mean. I want the people, to act...LIKE PEOPLE! I didn't like a lot of Babylon V, but what kept me watching was the essential beleivability in the Centurai, the Minbari, the Narn, and YES, even the Humans! It's not what they looked like, though interesting, it's what they did, and what they're governments did, and how they handled themselves in pressure (except the Volrons and the Shadows, they SUCKED, which means I really didn't like the show's premise, bite me.) That's also why I liked the X-Wing books of the EU best; none of the Force mumbo-jumbo, but real, gritty, blood and guts heroics. Very, very awesome!

[Master Magnus]

Well, George Lucas said the following in an interview after the release of Star Wars:

It [Star Wars] all has to show impeccable logic and unflawed realism, even if it deals with a different galaxy and an era 3,000 years in the past or the future.

[JackBauer24]

I have to ask-- you want realism in a saga where people run around in robes waving bars of light around and where they believe that there's an energy field that can give you special powers? Now I'm all for realism in my entertainment, but come now. Realism went out the door thirty years ago for Star Wars.

[Fish1941]

OK, I've been having debates with people and it seems we aren't even on the same planet. OK, I don't give a rat's ass about theme, scene, story arc drama and all that crap. I don't even care about whether Star Wars is really Sci-Fi or Fantasy (it will always be sci-fi for me, albeit soft sci-fi). I want REALISM. The Technology, fine, throw in the Force, I'm not norrowminded on what's possibly real. But I do EXPECT people to behave logicaly. I expect people to make mistakes, I expect people to have loyalties, especially misplaced ones. I expect people to want things they shouldn't have.

Here's one complaint: no internet. Now in the movies that's not pertenent, and most of the EU was written before the internet became big, but there's no intergalactic information exchange which is, in my opinion BULL$H!T! There's an unbelievable market for that kind of thing from researchers to blogers and where there's a market, there will be a product, and I expect after 35,000 years of hyperdrive, SOMEONE would have figured out how to do this. To say Holonet is ONLY FOR GOVERNMENT AND CORPORATIONS is hooey. Fact is, cost despersed among countless trillions would make Holonet hosting possible for a petense.

No body knows about the Force. No No No! If the Jedi/Sith War were a cladestine war like the spy of the Cold War, then I could except it, but considering the Sith nearly conquered the Republic on three seperate occasions, AT LEAST, the very idea this would be overlooked is atrocitous. It's like we had three World wars with Nazis and most people STILL haven't heard of "Mein Kampf" Ay ay ai.

And the Padme/Anakin Romance. I DO NOT CARE ABOUT TRADGEDY AND/OR DRAMA!!! I SUFFERED THROUGH 'ROMEO AND JULIET' AND CONSIDER IT THE WORST OF SHAKESPEARE'S PLAYS! (The normal contender for that, Titus Andronicus I put near the top just on entertainment value). I want, no NEED that romance to make sense. And I want Anakin to have better reasons to join Palpatine, and he has plenty of reasons to believe the Republic a failed goverment, but he never expresses these on Mustafar because God forbid the bad guys have a F***ing point! :mad:

I just feel like I'm not making sense to people. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe not?:confused:


If you want realism, watch NOVA on PBS.

[Darth Zan Maka]

psychological realism... What about Dostoyevsky style, or something like Irvin Welsh mind-crushing realism? People act like pEOPLE there too, you know ... we'd have much more complicated Jedi Falls, so we could look deeper into the Darkside... drugs theme could be opened, etc.

Jedi is not as good as they may seem anyway, they killed their padawans out of paranoya (while poor guys were completely innocent), in EU, remember?

[bruciarsi]

Applying our own technological evolution to a fictional civilisation really makes little sense. Just because we have developed technology in our way does not mean the creators of that universe will do exactly the same thing.
Also to assume because something is not mention that it doesnt exist. I recently watch a movie based in our current time and even though the internet exist it was not shown or mentioned. Does this mean in that movie it did not exist?