No, there is another [Archive] - The Galactic Senate

Obi-wannabe

08-31-2006, 08:04 AM

DblDwn

08-31-2006, 09:16 AM

did anyone else pick up on that?

Um yeah...........this has been discussed before. I forget what the popular opinion is. Obviously Lucas had someone in mind as "another" but if it was Leia in ESB then it seems odd to have included the incestual kiss on Hoth. With that in mind we could just chalk it up as Obi-Wan being a sexist and not thinking that Leia could stop the Sith if Luke were to be killed or, worse, join them. Although that doesn't seem likely considering he fights alongside Leia's mother in both TPM and AOTC so he knows that she definately has tough genetics. Perhaps he is afraid that Leia would fold like her mom did and lose the will to live if she had to learn that her father caused her mother's death and that she would have to defeat both her father and her twin brother. There's lots of speculation on the subject but one this is clear after ROTS..........Obi-Wan does know about Leia.

walong

08-31-2006, 10:58 AM

I thought that the way the dalogue played, it didn't preclude that Obi-Wan knew about Leia. Seems to me that it could be read that he just did not (for whatever reasons) think of her as the one who would stop the Emperor.

I agree with the general opinion that at the time ESB was written & filmed, Lucas had no idea that he was going to make Luke & Leia into brother & sister. Earlier versions of the characters in earlier revisions of the original screenplay may have had some sibling relationships (like proto-Luke and proto-Han were both sons of proto-Obi Wan), but Lucas only made Luke & Leia into brother & sister because he felt that he needed some kind of follow-up "topper" for Luke/Vader in ESB.

Rabid Whiphid

08-31-2006, 11:13 PM

I've said this before but I'll say it again... I always thought it woulda been nice if "the other" had turned out to be Wedge. Hold on, hold on, before you balk, let me explain.

If Wedge had been Luke's twin brother, he would have been right there, under our noses the whole time, which would make it a bigger surprise, would give more presence and development to an otherwise second string character, and would lend more meaning to his minimal scenes in Eps. 4&5 on future viewings.

Plus, in ROTJ, he fires the shot that blows up the second Death Star, and in SW, blowing up a giant space station (Anakin with the Droid Control Ship in Ep1; Luke with the first Death Star in Ep.4) seems to indicate that you've got a touch of the Force in you, and could be worthy of Jedi training.

Also, he doesn't kiss Luke. haha. Which brings up another point... Having ANYBODY other than Leia be "the other" would preserve (rather than completely destroy) the love triangle story, and the amusing competition between Luke and Han for Leia's attention... which was so entertaining to watch pre-1983.

Yeah, I love ROTJ but the whole "Leia turning out to be the other" thing was the worst mistake in it. Even a worse mistake than the Ewoks.

And oh by the way, sorry if I just changed the subject. To answer the original question raised in this thread... I think Obi Wan just assumed Leia wouldn't work out for his and Yoda's agenda since she had already chosen her path as a Rebel officer by that point, and wasn't on a path that would lead her to seek any Jedi training. When Yoda said, "No there is another" I think he was simply correcting Obi Wan's assumption.

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James

09-01-2006, 08:53 PM

Rabid Whiphid

09-01-2006, 09:05 PM

Wedge wasn't enough of a character- he's only very minor and most general viewers wouldn't know who he is. If Luke had said in ROTJ to Ben "Wedge! Wedge is my brother!" everyone would be like "and who the hell is Wedge?".

Well, yeah of course, but I make the suggestion with the assumption that if you changed the story that much, you would also write the dialogue, and perhaps the first half of ROTJ, in such a way that it would work with this idea! ...Whether that meant including Wedge in the mission to rescue Han from Jabba, or whatever...

I was just tossing around a hypothetical.

-

Obi-wannabe

09-02-2006, 12:28 AM

I think if Lando was the other it would have been interesting.

Rabid Whiphid

09-02-2006, 12:51 PM

I think if Lando was the other it would have been interesting.

Heck, if Admiral Ackbar had turned out the be the other, it would have been better than Leia being the other!!!!

Zedekk

09-03-2006, 05:04 PM

Heck, if Admiral Ackbar had turned out the be the other, it would have been better than Leia being the other!!!!

Heck I was personnaly going to vote for Nien Numb as "the other" but Ackbar is cool too, ya know, for a fish I mean.

cj790

09-03-2006, 05:21 PM

:lol:
Good respsonses!

I also think that Ob1 just didn't believe Leia was capable of defeating the Emperor - whether it be sexism, the fact that she hasn't undergone any Jedi training at all, he didn't know where she could be found after Alderaan blew up, etc.

I agree too that the Luke / Leia tie seems hasty in RotJ; but to be honest, there weren't too many other choices for the 'other' - maybe a new character would have been interesting?

walong

09-05-2006, 07:12 PM

^ Most definitely, "the other" should have been a new character.

I always thought that the way the dialogue went in that scene ("That boy is our last hope", "No, there is another") that Yoda could have meant "another hope" rather than another person. Just a bit more room for some creativity/cleverness, I suppose....

techno-union

09-06-2006, 01:43 PM

I've heard a few times that the other was supposed to be Luke's sister (not leia) who was being trained on the other side of the galaxy.

Zedekk

09-06-2006, 02:51 PM

^ ya see THAT would've been interesting... but cause for more speculation and such in the SW galaxy which we don't really need more of do we? But yeah I would've liked to see that happen.

DblDwn

09-06-2006, 03:04 PM

I'm waiting for the people in denial over his death to suggest that, had the movies been made in numerical order, the "Other" could have been Mace, who was still alive and hiding out on the other side of the galaxy.

A theory which makes absolutely so sense in the world but, then again, neither does the argument that Mace survived.

walong

09-06-2006, 03:53 PM

One thing that I never cared for about the Leia-is-Lukes-sister thing: it made things seem like anyone who wasn't a part of the Skywalker clan or one of their close cronies was a basically a nobody who can't do anything important when it comes to saving the galaxy. Even little things like putting Jabba & Boba Fett & Chewbacca into the PT just made that worse.

DblDwn

09-06-2006, 04:17 PM

It's like that in every movie series though. Look at Dead Man's Chest. Granted there are other things going on but you've got the big 3: Jack, Will and Elizabeth. Will and Elizabeth are in love (Han and Leia). All the other characters that are with them are just there to fill out a group. The two leftover comic relief characters from Curse of the Black Pearl, the tall one being the clutzy oaf and the short one being the more practical of the two, could easily be compared to R2 and 3PO. Jack's first mate could be compared to Chewbacca because of his loyalty and the fact that he is the first mate. And so on and so on. My point is that this isn't just the case in Star Wars but it still works as a common cinematic formula.

Zedekk

09-06-2006, 04:44 PM

Enlightening post DD. I agree.

DblDwn

09-06-2006, 05:22 PM

Thank you.

I'll even take it a step further and throw out the most obvious comparison which is LOTR. Frodo is the young boy taken from his home to defeat evil by a grand old wizard. Can you say Luke and Obi-Wan? Merry and Pippin are the two comic relief characters. Can you say R2 and 3PO? Samwise is about as loyal a friend as ther is. He's like Chewie in that sense all the way down to the hairy feet. Sauron being the definition of evil would of course be Palpatine. Even in the sense that he rules from the background. I would even compare Gollum to Anakin for the simple fact that Anakin's lust for power, and Gollum's lust for the Ring, is the undoing of them both. And, in the end, they both die ridding their respective world/galaxy of the very evil that consumed them albeit Anakin does it a lot more heroically. There are a lot more comparisons between the two stories but that's enough to solidify my point.

walong

09-06-2006, 09:02 PM

I'm not terribly familiar with DMC, but I don't think that it takes much doing to find thematic elements that are common between SW and LOTR and many others. After all SW is really a distillation of many sources in literature and films, as Lucas has said for decades -- and LOTR was a major source for him.

The real test is: how well did the writer make use of those themes/elements? It wouldn't be hard to find examples from various places where the same theme was used well in one case and totally botched in another.

No one seems to argue too forcefully against the notion that "Leia-is-Lukes-sister" was concocted by Lucas mainly to try to top "Vader-is-Lukes-father" from ESB. I never really understood what other purpose that follow-up revelation might serve, but there are several ways to me where it seems that it does harm or raises questions (like the kiss-your-sister thing). (Side note: isn't it kinda fishy when one can so easily swap in different names/relationships like that?)

I don't agree that it's "like that in every movie", since there are far too many ways to use the elements. But if it were as you contend, then isn't that the same thing as calling it an overused cliche? Note, too, you did use the word "formula", but who wants formulaic writing?

And I still think that the Jabba/Fett/Chewie stuff was entirely gratuitous. You could rewrite the whole thing to expunge those and it would be virtually unchanged.

DblDwn

09-07-2006, 09:54 AM

However every movie does have the main character(s) and then the supporting characters who are in the background. Look at Ocean's Eleven. The three main characters, just of the "11", are clearly Danny, Rusty and Linus but that leaves 8 others, not even including Tess, who are secondary in terms of the story. Like Star Wars. Luke, Han and Leia are the three main characters of importance to the cause and even though Lando, Chewbacca, 3PO, R2, Wedge, etc are all extremely significant in their own way to the resolution they are still secondary, background characters.

walong

09-07-2006, 12:11 PM

Well, sure, most stories are structured that way. Still that doesn't mean that an author necessarily needs to re-use existing characters or concepts even if only as a matter of good practice.

ROTJ's "Leia-is-Lukes-sister" coming on the heels of "Vader-is-Lukes-father" always felt way too re-cycled for me, because it is essentially the same idea and it is used at a very critical point -- far too critical & conspicuous for a recycled idea to serve. My other point about how it only further tightens up the SW "protagonist clique" instead of expanding upon it is relatively minor compared to that.

DblDwn

09-07-2006, 01:44 PM

I agree that it wasn't needed for the story. Typically trilogies have the first part being the intro with a resolution that could stand alone if needed, the second part has the big twist and the cliffhanger ending and the final part has the resolution. This formula, back to that word again, would have worked wonderfully if Lucas hadn't felt the need to attempt to top himself from Empire. He didn't but what is done is done and there isn't anything we can do to change it.

I would like to think that the "there is another" line was thrown in at the time without the intention of it being Leia. That would help to explain the incestual kiss earlier in the movie. Does anyone think the story would have been better if the "other" had been Luke's brother who turned out to be Han? It would make it more interesting consdering Han's speech in ANH about not believing in "hokey religions." Then it turns out he is Force Sensitive but never knew it. And neither did Obi-Wan. Remember that Harrison wanted Han to be killed off at the end of Empire or the beginning of Jedi because he felt that Han should have died for his friends. That the character had no where else to go. If Han had turned out to be Luke's brother then that certainly would have given him somewhere to go.

DblDwn

09-07-2006, 01:47 PM

Zedekk

09-07-2006, 03:09 PM

^NNNNOOOOOooooooo....!

Mothman

09-08-2006, 03:05 PM

Since many of you are speculating about "the other" being a Skywalker family member, there's one person that has been left out: Mother.

It is very possible that in GL's pre-1983 writing that Luke's mother had not died in the way that we now know about from Episode III. Perhaps she was still very much alive. Perhaps...

Zedekk

09-08-2006, 03:13 PM

^ Interesting, but that doesn't make her force sensitive...

DblDwn

09-10-2006, 09:13 AM

But it would definately serve as a motivator for bringing Anakin back from the Dark Side.

Mothman

09-11-2006, 03:04 PM

^ Interesting, but that doesn't make her force sensitive...

I'm speculating about this from the pre-1983 perspective, so perhaps she was Force sensitive during that point in GL's writing process.

Sargoth

10-14-2006, 12:41 AM

No one seems to argue too forcefully against the notion that "Leia-is-Lukes-sister" was concocted by Lucas mainly to try to top "Vader-is-Lukes-father" from ESB. I never really understood what other purpose that follow-up revelation might serve,

Have we forgotten what happened at the climax of ROTJ? Lucas needed something that Vader could use to push Luke 'over the edge'. Luke was calm and in control during his duel with Vader - until Vader threatened to turn Leia.

General Grievous

10-16-2006, 07:16 PM

yeah, but before the prequels, the whole thing about Leia being Luke's sister seemed kind of convulted and not believable... as if it was done in a rush or something... but now that we have Ep. III, the scenes about Leia's past work much better... I think... =P

Sarah-Leia

11-10-2006, 12:21 AM

I was watching TESB recently and it still bugs me when Luke took off to help his friends the dialogue between Yoda and Obi Wan. Obi Wan - "That boy is our last hope" Yoda- " No there is another". It seemed kind of like only Yoda knew about Leia. Which we know from ROTS is not true. did anyone else pick up on that?

Maybe Obi-Wan didn't realise that Leia had the Force potential to defeat the Sith? :eh:
Maybe Obi-Wan was becoming senile and forgot that Leia existed - but then Yoda would be even more senile. :eh:

Zedekk

11-11-2006, 09:34 PM

^ Interesting, but that doesn't make her force sensitive...

I'm speculating about this from the pre-1983 perspective, so perhaps she was Force sensitive during that point in GL's writing process.

Point taken, but going with the pre-1983 speculation, I don't think George had the idea of midi-chlorians as being a factor in being able to influence the force at that time. I only mention this because I have interpreted your mentioning of Shmi as bringing up the whole "you inherit your force powers from your parents" idea. If this is not what you intended then, please, disregard.

thepepgal

11-12-2006, 08:31 AM

Point taken, but going with the pre-1983 speculation, I don't think George had the idea of midi-chlorians as being a factor in being able to influence the force at that time. I only mention this because I have interpreted your mentioning of Shmi as bringing up the whole "you inherit your force powers from your parents" idea. If this is not what you intended then, please, disregard.

But Luke's mother is Padme and not Shmi who is his grandmother. Prior to the prequels coming out it was believed that Padme was force sensitive and the films don't really dispute this. In some ways Yoda response to Padme in the Chancellor's office after her attack on the landing bay may hint at it.

Zedekk

11-12-2006, 02:19 PM

^Oopsie how did I make the foolish jump that we were talking about Shmi? *bad Zedekk, bad!*:ugh: :eh:

thepepgal

11-13-2006, 07:41 AM

^Oopsie how did I make the foolish jump that we were talking about Shmi? *bad Zedekk, bad!*

lol:chortle:

No, Zedekk is slightly confused. Forgot all about Ep3 and Padme giving birth to twins. :crazy:

I forgive you:)

DblDwn

11-13-2006, 11:06 AM

There is an interesting scenario that we have yet to discuss. Luke leaves to go to Bespin. They know he will face Vader. They, realistically, have to assume that Vader will tell Luke that he is his father. I mean they have to figure that Palpatine has figured it out and told Vader as motivation for his turn. If that was enough to lure Luke to the Dark Side then they would need another Force user to attempt to defeat the Sith. We also have to look at this from the point of view that Yoda and Obi-Wan knew, from Luke's vision and presumably Yoda's attempted 'look', that Leia was being held captive by the Empire as part of Luke's trap. If Yoda cannot truly see whether or not they will die, "Always in motion is the future", then there was no guarantee that Leia would be alive to be "another."

Keep in mind here that when the line was stated ROTJ had not been written and neither had most details of the PT. That said, perhaps Yoda was speaking of himself. If Luke failed then Yoda, as the last remaining Jedi, may have been preparing himself for another confrontation with evil. Obi-Wan would think of Yoda as too old and as too long out of the game to make a real challenge but we know from the PT that Yoda is as much of a bad@$$ as they come. Obviously Luke was never intended to turn in the story so the whole idea is moot but, from the standpoint of the story at the time that movie was made, you never know?

Justin

11-13-2006, 11:44 AM

The original idea (according to Gary Kurtz) was that Luke's sister was NOT going to be Princess Leia, that she would be a major part of the sequel trilogy, along with the resolution of Darth Vader being their father.

Zedekk

11-13-2006, 02:20 PM

lol:chortle:

No, Zedekk is slightly confused. Forgot all about Ep3 and Padme giving birth to twins. :crazy:

I forgive you

:bow: much thanks!

Mothman

11-13-2006, 04:01 PM

Sarah-Leia

11-20-2006, 12:19 PM

What interesting conspiracies and theories!

THX-1138

11-28-2006, 03:55 PM

Leia was resistant to the mind probe in ANH.

Leia Also heard Luke's telepathic summons as he hung from cloud city in TESB.

There are some clues that she was more than a normal senator in the first two films.

DblDwn

11-28-2006, 05:00 PM

thepepgal

11-29-2006, 09:24 AM

Nicely stated. She did hear him "calling" to her in ESB. I guess I never considered that one would need to be Force sensitive in order to do that. Which would prove that Lucas had that intention for her during that film. Although that does make the incestual kiss all that more alarming.

No it makes the kiss a ticking time bomb it was. Remember if you watch all six films in the order 1 - 6 then you already kow they are brother and sister. They just don't know. This has happen in real life from families separated.

DblDwn

11-29-2006, 11:18 AM

That's a fair point as well.

Mothman

11-29-2006, 02:31 PM

.....Although that does make the incestual kiss all that more alarming.

EEEWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!:w00t:

(That shot kinda gives me the willies.)

THX-1138

11-30-2006, 03:28 AM

One other point I want to make but you may not like it.

What if George just forgot about what Obi Wan said in TESB?

It was written 25 years prior To ROTS.

Keep in mind TESB came first and for a prequel to be a good prequel it needs to provide a working back story that fits the original story not the other way around. ROTS needs to conform to TESB and I suspect we have a case of faulty script writing.

You see I told you that you wouldn't like it.

DblDwn

11-30-2006, 12:14 PM

That's a fair point but I would certainly hope that George was responsible enough to check the already released product if he had any doubts. Then again, he did have Padme touch newborn Luke's forehead, and have no contact at all with Leia, yet in ROTJ Leia is the one who has memories of their mother.

Perhaps all that flannel has gotten to George's mind.

THX-1138

11-30-2006, 03:50 PM

My thoughts exactly.

I have flannel sheets. Now I am worried.

borgmatrix

11-30-2006, 04:41 PM

No one seems to argue too forcefully against the notion that "Leia-is-Lukes-sister" was concocted by Lucas mainly to try to top "Vader-is-Lukes-father" from ESB. I never really understood what other purpose that follow-up revelation might serve, but there are several ways to me where it seems that it does harm or raises questions (like the kiss-your-sister thing).
Actually, I felt the "Leia-is-Luke's-sister" revelation was Lucas' convenient solution to the love triangle. He had Han and Luke interested in the same woman, so revealing Leia was Luke's sister allowed for easy resolution. Luke would no longer be interested, since its his sister, and Han would no longer have any opposition.

silverbolt

01-03-2007, 07:07 PM

Personally I think that for the 50th Anniversary DVD they should digitally remove all traces of Luke and Leia being brother and sister in Jedi and change the scene in Empire to the following:

Luke takes off from Dagobah

Obi-Wan: "That boy is our only hope."

Yoda: "No. There is another."

Obi-Wan: "Who?"

Jar Jar pops up beside Obi-Wan and declares: "Mesa back." :lol:

that image is both hilarious and horrifying all in one

i would kill to see the looks of absolute horror on Star wars fans everywhere if that actually happened.
Maybe lucas should include it just for kicks in a new release DVD

Balnazzar

01-04-2007, 08:56 AM

Obi-Wan definitely knew about Leia, and so did Yoda. He was the wisest Jedi in the galaxy that day, so is it possible he sensed the existence of another jedi through the Force? - Yes.

DblDwn

01-04-2007, 01:08 PM

Or perhaps he was present at their birth..................:tease:

Balnazzar

01-05-2007, 03:50 PM

Or perhaps he was present at their birth..................:tease:

I would have to say,.....Yes, he was:nahnah:

bluemilk

01-05-2007, 04:19 PM

I'm not convinced that he made Leia, Luke's sister for the convience of a solution to the "love triangle". If you read some of the older scripts and rough drafts, "Luke" has a brother. In one draft, Leia was the daughter of Owen and Beru.

I do think, IMHO, that Lucas always wanted Star Wars to encompass the story of a family.

Zedekk

01-05-2007, 04:21 PM

I thought I heard somewhere that originally it was twin girls who would be the "heroes" of the story.

Mothman

01-05-2007, 06:56 PM

.....I do think, IMHO, that Lucas always wanted Star Wars to encompass the story of a family.

He's definitely achieved that, now including the possibility of Sidious being Luke & Leia's "grandfather" (depending on how you interpret certain clues in ROTS).

:bye:

DblDwn

01-06-2007, 01:25 AM

Very true Mothman.

nefertiti

01-17-2007, 10:20 PM

He's definitely achieved that, now including the possibility of Sidious being Luke & Leia's "grandfather" (depending on how you interpret certain clues in ROTS).

:bye:

Kinda reminds me of Dune...that whole family circle....

silverbolt

01-18-2007, 03:36 PM

the six films are in essence the story of anakin and his children, liea had to have some connection to stay as a main chrachter within the film other than her relationship with han, so in comes the sister line

nefertiti

04-30-2007, 12:26 AM

Was going through my User CP threats and saw this one had been a long time out of action....

We know that the films were scribbled out during a time of great change in the structure of our society. One of those changes was the Feminist Movement. What if at that time, Lucas was still of a mind that a female "hero" wasn't going to work. That society as it stood was male orientated and he thought she'd be a good "right-hand" friend-chum-sister, and so forth - but not an equal hero in the story.

He wouldn't have known how much the film would take off and how sucessful it would eventually be, but in the beginning at that time she (Leia) would not lure the audience he was looking for.

thepepgal

04-30-2007, 07:52 AM

Was going through my User CP threats and saw this one had been a long time out of action....

We know that the films were scribbled out during a time of great change in the structure of our society. One of those changes was the Feminist Movement. What if at that time, Lucas was still of a mind that a female "hero" wasn't going to work. That society as it stood was male orientated and he thought she'd be a good "right-hand" friend-cum-sister, and so forth - but not an equal hero in the story.

He wouldn't have known how much the film would take off and how sucessful it would eventually be, but in the beginning at that time she (Leia) would not lure the audience he was looking for.

That's a bold statement considering Sigourney Weaver in Alien and the 3 sequels it has spawned. Ripley was a very strong female and there was few complains.

Kam Solusar

04-30-2007, 07:55 AM

Not that bold, considering Alien came out in 79, and many people did find it progressive that Ripley was the ultimate hero. Most people probably thought it was going to be Dallas.

nefertiti

04-30-2007, 07:57 AM

^ There is more than 10 years differance between the actual release of the two films, but the writing is even more.

thepepgal

04-30-2007, 08:11 AM

^ There is more than 10 years differance between the actual release of the two films, but the writing is even more.

Explain how there is ten years between 1977 for SW and 1979 for Aliens. I only count 2 myself which isn't that long for the atitudes of people to change.

nefertiti

04-30-2007, 09:29 AM

Explain how there is ten years between 1977 for SW and 1979 for Aliens. I only count 2 myself which isn't that long for the atitudes of people to change.

You're right, tpg...my bad...I punched in Aliens...instead of the singular... apologies...

My comment was not meant as a "zinger" against Lucas...he's not much older than myself. But where it wasn't quite June Cleaver while we were growing up, it was very different from today and the male, in general, was the one filmakers determined went to the films. Just a part of the times.

Lucas was mentored by Cappola, a very traditional male director, it wouldn't be out of the ball field to say that combined their ideas of society would make the female part - less than the male. And it wouldn't be far to say that they might not think the female role over-all as important.

Things did change, in ESB Leia becomes more, but is still playing and entirely female-like role. But in RotJ, she does burst out and we see an even strong Leia...one fully capable of being identified as equal to. Of course, there is the slave outfit...:)

And then the writing..or story outline. He did write it much earlier...

Sorry about my mess-up...thanks for correcting me. :)

thepepgal

05-01-2007, 09:38 AM

You're right, tpg...my bad...I punched in Aliens...instead of the singular... apologies...

My comment was not meant as a "zinger" against Lucas...he's not much older than myself. But where it wasn't quite June Cleaver while we were growing up, it was very different from today and the male, in general, was the one filmakers determined went to the films. Just a part of the times.

Lucas was mentored by Cappola, a very traditional male director, it wouldn't be out of the ball field to say that combined their ideas of society would make the female part - less than the male. And it wouldn't be far to say that they might not think the female role over-all as important.

Things did change, in ESB Leia becomes more, but is still playing and entirely female-like role. But in RotJ, she does burst out and we see an even strong Leia...one fully capable of being identified as equal to. Of course, there is the slave outfit...:)

And then the writing..or story outline. He did write it much earlier...

Sorry about my mess-up...thanks for correcting me. :)

That's ok nefertiti. I was comparing the public's attitude and not the writers. People are rare to accept change so accepting a female Ripley so easily was why I said Lucas could have had a female lead.

Interesting fact is that Lucas did write Luke's character originally as female but original script of Alien by Dan O'Brannon and Ronald Shusett had Ripley as male. The Alien script indicated the characters were unisex so Water Hill and David Giler change the characters names and made Ripley female.

Maybe that is why many people hate Luke for being whiny (ie female) and like Ripley for being so strong (male like).:giveup:

Mothman

05-01-2007, 02:36 PM

.....Things did change, in ESB Leia becomes more, but is still playing and entirely female-like role. But in RotJ, she does burst out and we see an even strong Leia...one fully capable of being identified as equal to. Of course, there is the slave outfit...:)

There was change with female roles in the PT, too, except in the opposite direction.

Padme began as a strong leader in TPM and AOTC, but she sure became quite weak in ROTS.

:bye: