Changing Views of Vader

[Jedi_Zachaa]

Same topic, clean slate for everyone else who hasn't seen it yet!!

With Episode I and the new II trailers, I am beginning to view Vader differently (duh). I watched A New Hope recently and it got me thinking about how now I usually refer to "him" as Anakin. I am becoming detached from the evil Vader, and view him more as a lost man, especially since I know he is ultimately redeemed.

What about everyone else? Do you talk about Anakin or Vader? Does it depend upon his period of life? Or do you always refer to him by one name?

In ROTJ, I was always fascinated by that shot of Vader in his helmet, looking at Luke getting fried by Palpy. We see his helmet countless times... but I dunno, in this shot, maybe the lighting or something is different, but it seems to have so much more depth. What is that guy thinking under there? I have long thought that he would be thinking about Luke and Leia's mother... how she died... Maybe soon we will be getting real images to go with what he's thinking under that mask.

I am prepared for the eventuality that Anakin is going to break my heart. But his fall to evil is still shrouded- we have yet to see how it happens, and hopefully it won't be too much for us to handle. Vader seems so inhuman, and my thoughts of his pre-Vader self so vibrant and real and human... how could they POSSIBLY be the same man?

To answer my own question, for now I refer to him as Anakin, even under the mask. Luke was right, he's still there as pre-Vader Anakin, and you can see it in the OT. Vader is just the evil part of him... the majority, but not all-encompassing.

[Lara]

Vader was, before the prequels, a mysterious and dark figure. When he is redeemed in ROTJ and we see him unmasked I wondered what was his life before he became Darth Vader. He was dangerous, an evil presence that had no past, just a present. He didn't show any human characteristic.

In the prequels we'll see the human side of Vader, we will come to a better understanding of his actions. He will be less mysterious and maybe the viewer, instead of fearing him, will pitty him in the OT.

I refer to Anakin as Anakin in the prequels, I refer to him as Vader in the OT.

[Tovor]

Vader was, before the prequels, a mysterious and dark figure. When he is redeemed in ROTJ and we see him unmasked I wondered what was his life before he became Darth Vader. He was dangerous, an evil presence that had no past, just a present. He didn't show any human characteristic.

A good point DL, one I agree with completely. Before the unmasking he was just a figurehead of evil, but once the mask came off we saw he was a real person after all. Maybe that's why GL did not give us any details about Darth Maul in TPM, to keep him a figurehead rather than somebody we could care about and consider human as you/we did toward post-Vader Anakin.

[Nathan Butler]

I don't think my view on Vader has changed, with the exception of having things fleshed out, but I can definitely say that my view of ROTJ has changed. For the longest time, I loved the visual qualities of ROTJ, but considered it my least favorite of the films, given how much of it is sheer climax. After seeing TPM and AOTC (well, okay, a lot of AOTC, but not the whole thing yet), I can appreciate ROTJ far more as the end of the story that began in TPM, with TPM as a sort of prologue.

[Lara]

Maybe that's why GL did not give us any details about Darth Maul in TPM

Good point. I hadn't thought of that.

[shaps]

Originally posted by NathanButlerSWT@May 12 2002 - 23:31
but I can definitely say that my view of ROTJ has changed. *For the longest time, I loved the visual qualities of ROTJ, but considered it my least favorite of the films, given how much of it is sheer climax. *After seeing TPM and AOTC...I can appreciate ROTJ far more as the end of the story that began in TPM, with TPM as a sort of prologue.
In that respect, Episode III could end up being the ultimate movie of the series.

My reasoning is that with TPM and AOTC there's a ten year difference.

With AOTC and Ep. III there difference should be a lot less. That will hopefully add to its depth and our emotional response to it.

The reason Empire was so great is that it happens almost right after ANH. We know all the characters and where they're coming from.

With TPM we had little reference. We were looking to the future (OT) to have a framework for the past.

[Vyndim]

Well I know my view of Anakin has changed. I now refer to him as Anakin for one *grin* I feel GL has really showed us the real Anakin in ATOC. I think I remember GL saying that after the prequels we would almost pity Anakin as things would seem so out of his control. Personally I used to view him as just a figurehead of evil and darkness, much like everyone else. Now I actually see him has a real person with actual feelings, even though he did show them at the end in ROTJ. I look forward to Episode III to see how the final transition from Jedi to Sith really happens.

[Luke Michael]

I view Anakin differently too. I see Darth Vader as a person who a very deeply hurt and was taken over by his anger. Before he was just a "bad guy" who was evil for being evil.

It had to be very painful on Anakin. His mother dies, His arm gets cut off, He can't marry Padme, He can't have any possessions for himself, etc etc etc. All that built up to whatever happens in Episode 3 would be enough to push someone to the dark side and be used by Sidous.

[Senator Theant]

Concerning Hayden's performance . . .

Recently, I saw "Life As a House", the only other major film to be starred by Hayden Chirstenson. I gotta say that it was Anakin Skywalker all over again. This kid, Hayden, seems to play well (or just like to play) the role of a completely emotionally distraught individual. As Anakin Skywalker, soon to be the darkest figure in the galaxy, Hayden must play convincingly Vader's role with a little bit more emotional stability. I mean, I am seriously questioning Hayden's ability to portray a stable Vader in EP III. In order for Vader to appear as someone capable of committing the atroctities that he does, hes gotta be dead f'ing serious throughout ALL of EP III. No jokes, no tears. Thats the only way. We gotta be able to witness his heart harden into the mechanical character he becomes in the OT. But remember, this has got to be the FINAL moments of the heart-hardening process. The trauma of fighting a war and losing many fellow Jedi may serve as the catalyst for this emotional transformation and since the film--EP III, that is--will probably depict the final events of the CLone Wars, this revelation will help the plot along as well.

Hopefully, during the three years between now and EP III, Hayden will take up as many acting opportunities as possible and be that much ready to play the part of his lifetime. Hey, it worked for Mark Hamill didnt it?

[Badass Leia]

I have to admit that I would never want to believe that one of the new Star Wars was better than the OT. I don't want to believe so since it doesn't have my all time favourites like Leia, Han, Luke, and the old 3PO and R2. I really think I am going to change my decision with Episode III. It will tie everything together and make everything so complete. Anakin will become Darth Vader.

I would have to say I veiw Anakin as Anakin a character I really love...and Darth Vader as a completely different character..., even different person like it could never be Anakin Skywalker That cute little guy who had so much love in him with the sweetest smile. :eh: Eh.. Sorry. Anyways...

I can see Anakin in Vader in the end of ROTJ when he stands with Yoda and Obi-wan. But during the whole OT Darth Vader is just this inexplicable power of evil that is a really cool character because he is so mysterious.

Luckily in the end he becomes himself once again.

ps
Hayden is cool...lol that was put in for no reason I just felt like saying that.

[Jedi_Zachaa]

I'm getting the same effect. I really do feel for the guy now. Of course, that totally does NOT justify what he ended up doing, but now we have some definite pictures to play in our heads when we see Vader looking from his dying son to his master.

Also, I see a couple spoilers getting out here. May I request that this thread be moved to the Spoilers domain? Until then, could people kindly refrain from movie spoilers? I forgot about that when I posted it here (I had not yet seen the movie)

[Teek]

Moved to spoilers section.

[Joey]

When I first saw OT I hated Vader. Of course, at the end when he saved Luke and when he took the mask off. I wondered, how did he get this way? What happened to him to make him so bad? Now, I am starting to see! I feel for Anakin, I really think he's going to be fooled into the dark side. He was this cute little boy full of love, and he was this head strong, impulsiveness, arrogant, emotional, caring, loving, edgy, young man, but not evil. Episode III is really going to be something. A lot pain and darkness, Hayden is a good actor and he is going to pull it off.

[Polunis]

Anakin does not exactly have a pleasant life, so I can understand some of his lingering frustration. Hatred is crippling, and you see the obvious physical aspect in the OT; GL was, I believe, revealing the inner Vader through his outer condition. He is truly more machine because of his apathy and ruthlessness; true freedom lies in forgiveness. I can understand how he becomes Vader, but I will have to wait for III in order to obtain a more complete picture.

[Ani's Girl]

i have loved Anakin Skywalker since i saw ROTJ when i was 8 years old. and i called him Anakin not Vader. you cannot imagine how excited i was about meeting him before he turned...

SO, no, my view hasn't really changed because i always saw him as a Tragic Hero. a dark troubled soul who lost his way but is redeemed. anyway, i think all your thoughts are insightful.

[Aurra Sing]

greetings, Ani's girl! We're on the similar thoughts here! :D

[DarthVaderJediKnight]

Hello, Just the topic i have been looking for.
Well, as you can tell, Im a Huge, Darth Vader Fan (*Notice he said Dath Vader style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif .) I have seen the phamton mence and atoc, and I thought Darth Maul was a totally cat, Now there was one good quality he shared with Vader, and i hate to admitt this cuz i hate darth maul, but they were both Ominious. I have read the script for Episode 3 and have seen what happens to Vader and how he comes about. Let me tell you, for the first time ever, during a Star Wars Novel, or Movie, I was scared. In episode 3, you all will see you of the craziest Star wars moive...ever, yah that my be my opinion, But im sure more will agree with me. We will all see why vader has no Human Traits anymore and I for one cant wait 2 more years :(

~Darth Vader~

" I find you lack of faith..............Disturbing!!
~Darth Vader

[Aurra Sing]

How'd ya get your hands on the script? I wanna know! lol. Scary, eh? hmm...

[Tovor]

A bump for worthiness.

[Luvinna.]

Yeah. Since DVJK isn't registered anymore, I'm not even going to bother pointing out that GL is still working on the script for E3 (according to the Prequel Update in SW Insider #62), therefore, the script he found (back in June?) could not possibly be authentic. :look:

I think most of the time I refer to him as Anakin. Unless I'm talking specifically about something he did or said as Vader. A lot of the time, I call him Grandaddy Anakin, so as not to confuse him with Anakin Solo. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/tongue.gif

Since ROTJ, I've really viewed Anakin as the "tragic hero", too. Now I'm always on the look out when I watch the OT for examples that show he isn't the heartless, ruthless villian they make him out to be (go count how many times he postpones Leia's execution in ANH).

When they announced the Prequels, I was very excited. My curiosity had been piqued by a line in The Truce at Bakura where Leia is wondering, "What was Vader like before he was Vader?" With the PT, we'd get to find out. Now, I'm seeing all kinds of indications as to how and why Anakin turns to the dark side.

Of course, Palpatine isn't helping any (what were you thinking when Palptine called Anakin "young Skywalker"?). I honestly think that if Palaptine hadn't been manipulating things, Anakin never would have fallen.

[Darth Vegas]

How will you view ani/vader?


That all depends on the camera angle's. ???

[Obi-Stu]

That all depends on the camera angle's.


My, My there's one in every crowd...

I keep the two seperate. Vader is in the OT and Anakin in the Prequals. As for Ep3, I don't know how to refer to him yet...

[Tovor]

*Bump*