Admiral Ozzel

[Obidobi]

Well was he?

He didn't want to check out the Hoth system!
He went out of lightspeed to close to the Hoth system, so the rebellion could spot them.
He tried to convince Vader thet there "is so many uncharted settlements"
He had a nasty look at Captain Piett after Vader told him to go to the Hoth system!

Vader quote: You have failed me for the last time!

What else did he do wrong?

I say he was a spy for the Rebellion!

[Mann]

He's too dumb to be a spy. He just messed up once to many times. He got into the army by virtue of his family.

[Obi-Stu]

I agree with Mann - And he got assigned to the wrong ship
with the wrong commander.

[Obi-Stu]

Remember Vader says "he's clumsly as he is studid"

So Vader must hold him in the same light as Jar Jar...

[Rojo]

He, yeah. He's just dumb, probably rich or something to become an Admiral.

[Mann]

it says in the database that he was a rich guy.

[MegoHulk]

I read he was sympathetic to the rebellion and thats why he tried to give them more time to escape.

[Rojo]

Where'd you read that?

[Jedi Kum-ahK]

Yeah, where did you read it? Moreover, Ozzel wasn't exactly part of the bright crop of commanders. Remember, overconfidence was the bane of Imperial Officers. And Vader wasn' texactly the top-notch strategist either.
Ozzel wasn't smart enough to be part of the Rebellion. Madine, baron Fel etc., they were the men. And I thik the storyline simply didn't allow for smart Imps. Smart Imps came up during the Thrawn trilogy. The Emperor didn't encourage smart commanders to be visible. Look at Piett; couldn't manage a Super Star Destroyer or the battle. Imagine Thrawn at the helm.
I think he didn't want to check out the Hoth system because he was not interested in relying on Vader's system of "using the force to check out things". He was thinking like a military man, and probably abhorred being commanded by someone who had little command experience and was only there by virtue of his association with the Emperor.
So the spy theory - no way!

[Darth Bigalow]

Out of all the people working in the Imperial Navy the Admiral is pretty high up. Do you think the Rebellion could have infiltrated the Empire and have thier spy be an Admiral. Forget the Admiral part the Rebellion couldnt get a spy that close, especially standing in front of Vader. I would $h!t my pants if I stood in front of Vader. The guy was just dumb and did not know how to use power, like Mussolini, always needing Hitler to come to his rescue.

[FerrisWiel]

Actually, ObiDobi, you may be on to something... of course, my vote is that Ozzel is Padme - I mean:

1. Age appropriate
2. The longing in Ozzel's eyes when "he" looked at Vader.
3. Similar moustache

Any others?

--Ferris Wiel

[Obidobi]

You are wrong farriswheel!
Vader is Padme!

[FerrisWiel]

lol, ObiDobi.

--Ferris Wiel

[Isomorph]

He was just plain dumb as hell thats all to it I doubt Vader could have read his thoughts because you actually have to have a brain for that to work.

[MegoHulk]

Ok, I don't have a source to give you but I know I read it. I also didn't say he was a spy, but that he was sympathetic to their cause, theres a big diffrerence.

[Jedi Kum-ahK]

O.K., if he was sympathetic to their cause, he should have quit them, like Madine did. Sooner or later it would have caused a conflict within himself.
He didn't quit them, so I think he just plain didn't like Vader for his methods and his way of imposing his will on others. And ist must be said that I think Piett knew of this and was trying to lick Vader's boots. He knew Ozzel didn't approve of Vader's methods and wanted the Dark Lord to know.

[Raganork8]

He was as clumsy as he was stupid not a tratior vader would have sensed this from day one.

[Isomorph]

Originally posted by raganork8@Jan 18 2003, 08:18 AM
He was as clumsy as he was stupid not a tratior vader would have sensed this from day one.
I agree no way he was working for the rebel's cause he was to stupid. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif

[FerrisWiel]

Strangely, it would appear that Vader himself was quite a failure himself having a member of his management team that inept and worthless. The Dark Lord has to take some of the blame - what a loser.

--Ferris Wiel

[Isomorph]

He did take the blame thats why he killed them all. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

[Mann]

Vader is the boss in the place of the Emperor. When he asks someone to do something, and they fail, they die. Ozzell is stupid, he messed up and died. He should have run away the minute he screwed up.

[Isomorph]

He was to busy trying to be cool

[Mann]

that was the last mistake he ever made

[Jedi Kum-ahK]

You bet it was

[FerrisWiel]

Vader deserved to be demoted after ESB. He was a huge failure.

*Couldn't retrieve DS1 plans
*DS1 blown up
*Luke got away
*Rebels escaped Hoth
*M.Falcon not captured
*Failed to overthrow Emperor
*Big staffing problems

How pathetic.

--Ferris Wiel

[Isomorph]

Originally posted by FerrisWiel@Jan 20 2003, 01:13 PM
Vader deserved to be demoted after ESB. He was a huge failure.

*Couldn't retrieve DS1 plans
*DS1 blown up
*Luke got away
*Rebels escaped Hoth
*M.Falcon not captured
*Failed to overthrow Emperor
*Big staffing problems

How pathetic.

--Ferris Wiel
He did overthrow the emperor at the end of ROTJ.heheh style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

[Obidobi]

Ok he was stupid and clumsy. You have all pointed it out.
But to become an Admiral and be that stupid you all say?

Then the emperor must have been quite stupid too, making him an Admiral.
An Admiral is the commanding officer in the fleet, so he must have done something right too.

What about the look he gave Piett? Was he just lazy, and didn't want to check it out?
Or did he feel that it was the right place to look, but tried to stop the fleet to go there?

[Isomorph]

Originally posted by Obidobi@Jan 20 2003, 06:01 PM
Ok he was stupid and clumsy. You have all pointed it out.
But to become an Admiral and be that stupid you all say?

Then the emperor must have been quite stupid too, making him an Admiral.
An Admiral is the commanding officer in the fleet, so he must have done something right too.

What about the look he gave Piett? Was he just lazy, and didn't want to check it out?
Or did he feel that it was the right place to look, but tried to stop the fleet to go there?
Actually you are right they all were stupid including the Emperor,yes he might have done a few things right but they weren't enough cause he's still got the force choke from Vader.

[Jedi Kum-ahK]

Originally posted by Obidobi@Jan 20 2003, 09:01 PM
But to become an Admiral and be that stupid you all say?

Then the emperor must have been quite stupid too, making him an Admiral.
An Admiral is the commanding officer in the fleet, so he must have done something right too.


Remember, the Emperor did not encourage smart commanders who would eventually become popular. It is so with all tyrants. Popular military leaders can lead to the ovethrow of dictators.
Why do you think Thrawn was shoved all the way to the Unknown Regions? He could have won the Emperor's war for him and gotten rid of Vader. He was much smarter than anybody at Endor. He probably would have made mincemeat of the rebels without such a large fleet.
It was probably important for him to do only some things right and that was it.

[Isomorph]

well I guess that makes sense.

[Dark Prince]

So, Jedi Kum-ahK, you say that Grand Admerial Thrawn could of polished the Emporer's boots with the Rebels, as in kicking the style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/censored.gif out of the Rebel Fleet?

[Jedi Kum-ahK]

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/huh.gif
Of course, haven't you read Heir To the Empire, Dark Force Rising and The Last Command? He almost finished the New Republic!

[Dark Prince]

None of them......

But i read others..

[Jedi Kum-ahK]

Read them! That's where I got fascinated with Imperials. Prior to that I felt they were just dummies. I would be thrilled if GL were planning to do Ep. VII-IX, cause that's just Thrawn!
style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/devil.gif

[Soontir Solo]

you should read them. Absolutely incredible they are. Arguably the best EU books of all. plus it introduces you to a ton of new and exciting characters like Mara Jade, Talon Kaarde, Pellaeon, and Garm Bel Iblis

[Dark Prince]

<span style="color:blue">Sounds like a good series, I guess i will try and find them so i can read them.</span>

[Plo Koon]

Ozzel did betray the Empire. But didn't know because he's an idiot.

[Soontir Solo]

He wasn't an idiot, he wasn't given a chance to succeed. Vader killed him before he even got to attack. Ozzel was doing what he thought was right for the good of the Empire, which doesn't make him a traitor.

[JediGirl16]

Originally posted by Jedi Kum-ahK@Jan 17 2003, 10:38 AM
Yeah, where did you read it? Moreover, Ozzel wasn't exactly part of the bright crop of commanders. Remember, overconfidence was the bane of Imperial Officers. And Vader wasn' texactly the top-notch strategist either.
Ozzel wasn't smart enough to be part of the Rebellion. Madine, baron Fel etc., they were the men. And I thik the storyline simply didn't allow for smart Imps. Smart Imps came up during the Thrawn trilogy. The Emperor didn't encourage smart commanders to be visible. Look at Piett; couldn't manage a Super Star Destroyer or the battle. Imagine Thrawn at the helm.
I think he didn't want to check out the Hoth system because he was not interested in relying on Vader's system of "using the force to check out things". He was thinking like a military man, and probably abhorred being commanded by someone who had little command experience and was only there by virtue of his association with the Emperor.
So the spy theory - no way!
Where did you get the impression that Imperials were idiots? They were supposed to be better trained and better equipped than the Rebels, having been based on Nazis.

As for Piett, where is the evidence of mismanagement in battle? He was held back by the Emperor's orders. He's certainly capable. The New Essential Guide to Characters states that he was an equal of any of the Emperor's Grand Admirals, including Thrawn.

Also, why do you think Thrawn is so special. He's not any more brilliant than a few other Grand Admirals. Certainly Grant, Tigellinus, and Zaarin were more than a match for him. Those three have repeatly defeated him on occasion.


Darth Bigalow: Yes, the Rebels did so before. Admiral Harkov of the Imperial Starfleet was bribed by the Rebels at later defected. (source: TIE Fighter Collector's CD)

[Soontir Solo]

How can you say Thrawn wasn't special. He was way better than any of the Grand Admirals. He single handedly almost defeated the New Republic with 25% of what the other Grand Admirals had. The other Grand Admirals were easily killed or captured. He wasn't. He was the best military mind the galaxy might have ever seen.

[AlanRJ]

Ozzel was stupid, plain and simple. There is no way he was a traitor to the Empire.

Lets consider this for a moment. You have a fleet of very powerful Star Destroyers manned with the finest Imperial soldiers and you're heading off to a remote system to eradicate a group of Rebels. If you were the Admiral in that fleet would you have even given them a chance? Ozzel assumed he would arrive in orbit, bombard them and clean up the pieces. He underestimated his opponent and that is the one critical mistake to make in a war. The Americans (superior training and superior firepower) underestimated the VietCong and paid the price. So did Ozzel.

[Soontir Solo]

I disagree AlanRJ. How can you judge him when he wasn't even given a chance to fight the Rebels at Hoth. Vader killed him before the fighting started. He didn't underestimate anyone. Vader underestimated the Rebels.

We will never know if Ozzel was an idiot or not. You wasn't given the chance to prove himself

But think about this. He must have been pretty intelligent to get command of the greatest ship the galaxy had ever seen. The ship given to Darth Vader I might add.

[Master_MJade]

he's just stupid...

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Obi-Stu@Jan 16 2003, 03:48 AM
Remember Vader says "he's clumsly as he is studid"

So Vader must hold him in the same light as Jar Jar...
Hey wait a minute......what if he is Jar Jar? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/scratchchin.gif

[AlanRJ]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Vader underestimated the Rebels. [/b][/quote]

I disagree with that Soontir. Lets take present day for example. Bush goes after Saddam Hussein and gives the General in command of the operation all the firepower, in fact more than enough firepower to deal with the situation. If the General fails to defeat Saddam does that mean that the President underestimated Saddam. No. The fault lies with the General for not coming up with a battle plan to deal with the situation. It is the same with Vader. He gave Ozzel more than enough men and firepower to deal with the Rebels but he came up with a poor battle and it failed. Ozzel himself said he thought surprise was the best tactic, well, it wasn't.

[Soontir Solo]

But the fact remains that Ozzel wasn't given the chance to succeed. He was killed by Vader right after they got to Hoth. He didn't get a chance to fight the Rebels. Vader didn't give him a chance to do anythign so it is unfair to judge him. His tactic may have worked. We just don't know? We cant judge his intelligence like this. We saw him for a total of like a minute or two in the movie. We don't know anythign about his prior career.

[AlanRJ]

We know exactly about Ozzels past. Vader killed him and said "You have failed me for the last time Admiral". Now to me that says that this isn't the first time that Ozzel made a mistake. People make mistakes around Vader, Piett did and the guy in charge of building the second Death Star was behind schedule and Vader told him to move it as the Emperor wasn't as forgiving as Vader. Vader will let you get a couple of blunders but he won't let them get much further, so for Ozzel to die then it was one blunder too many.

[Soontir Solo]

But you don't know what his prior career was like. This is a guy that must have at least 20 years of military expierence. He couldn't have reached the rank of Admiral, been given command of a fleet with a Super Star Destroyer and 5 Imperial Star Destroyers, and been given the task of defeating the enemy that destroyed the Death Star if he was incompetant. Once again, you cant judge him by 2 minutes of movie time and almost no knowledge of what this guy was really like.

[Blizzard]

I always thought he was just a character in a movie.... silly me.

[Darth Vegas]

Originally posted by Soontir Solo@Mar 10 2003, 09:28 AM
But you don't know what his prior career was like. This is a guy that must have at least 20 years of military expierence. He couldn't have reached the rank of Admiral, been given command of a fleet with a Super Star Destroyer and 5 Imperial Star Destroyers, and been given the task of defeating the enemy that destroyed the Death Star if he was incompetant. Once again, you cant judge him by 2 minutes of movie time and almost no knowledge of what this guy was really like.
We're ain't judging him, Vader did "He's as clumsy as he is stupid."

[Soontir Solo]

But this thread is asking our oppinion of this guy. Thats what im doing.

[Darth Vegas]

No it's not, it's asking whether or not he was a traitor of the Empire, not if he ws a good officier, which he obviously wasn't.

[Soontir Solo]

Whether or not he was a traitor to the Empire is an oppinion Bond. I don't think he was a traitor to hte Empire, thats my oppinion. You may think he was, thats your oppinion. This thread is asking for an oppinion, even though it doesn't spell it out for you.

[Lord Rocha]

Originally posted by AlanRJ@Mar 4 2003, 07:22 AM
Ozzel was stupid, plain and simple. There is no way he was a traitor to the Empire.


I agree.

If he was so experienced ( rank of Admiral) he made a huge mistake when miscalculating when and where going to arrive his fleet after leaving hyperspace and after he understeminated an enemy.

And after all Vader (as AlanRJ said before) can accept certain errors (with Jerjerrod at the Death Star schedule or with Piett ) but Ozzel commited so many he was...disposed of his services in the fleet.

[Soontir Solo]

He never underestimated an enemy. He made a plan for battle, Vader didn't like his plan so killed him. It wasn't a mistake, simply something Vader didn't like, and Vader was no military genius or anything.

You make it sound like this guy only made errors. He made one error, if you even call it an error. You can't sit here and judge somebodies intelligence, loyalty, or expierence by what the movie shows of him. He gets maybe a minute of screen time, thats it.

[AlanRJ]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>You make it sound like this guy only made errors. He made one error[/b][/quote]

How can you say that? A lot of officers under Vaders command have made mistakes (such as Piett not getting the Falcon when the hyperdrive was disabled). And, in Vaders own words "You have failed me for the last time". So it is crystal clear that he has made mistakes in the past, this was just one too many.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>You can't sit here and judge somebodies intelligence, loyalty, or expierence by what the movie shows of him. He gets maybe a minute of screen time, thats it.[/b][/quote]

I was in no way judging his intelligence, experience or loyalty. I would have to say that I would have to judge him an experienced and loyal officer of the fleet and he has had to have been intelligent to have led the fleet but everyone is vulnerable to errors and this was one error to many for Vader.

[Fred Wellard]

admiral ozzel was by no means a spy. he is just very wreckless and got on the wrong side of vader

[Fred Wellard]

admiral ozzel was by no means a spy! we was just very wreckless and got on the wrong side of vader.

[Soontir Solo]

Then what are you trying to debate Alan RJ, that he made too many errors? For all we know, and this is all we know, he made one error and to Vader that might have been one error too many. He killed the Captian of the Imperial Star Destroyer Agonizer, his name was Captian Needa I think, after just one mistake. Ozzel made one mistake that we know about, and that wasn't necessarily a mistake, it was only a mistake in Vaders eyes.

[AlanRJ]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>He killed the Captian of the Imperial Star Destroyer Agonizer, his name was Captian Needa I think, after just one mistake. Ozzel made one mistake that we know about, and that wasn't necessarily a mistake, it was only a mistake in Vaders eyes. [/b][/quote]

A very good point Soontir and yes Needa was killed after one mistake, so it is perfectly reasonable to deduce that Ozzel only made one mistake but Vader said himself "You have failed me for the last time". Now to me this sounds like he has made mistakes in the past and not that this is his first mistake. Surely if this was his first mistake then Vader would have said something like "You have failed me" without "for the last time".

What do you think?

[Soontir Solo]

But we only know about one mistake. Im just saying that it isn't fair to prejudge this guy when we really don't know how good of a leader he really was. He just made a decision that Vader didn't like.

[AlanRJ]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>But we only know about one mistake[/b][/quote]

Please explain the line "You have failed me for the last time". Please clarify what "last time" means. Does it mean first time, does it mean one time? I cannot see how you can say one mistake. Last time means more than once. He has made mistakes before, just because we have not seen them does not mean they do not exist.

[Soontir Solo]

The last time could very easily be the first time Alan. Last does not mean more than once. Something can be the first and last time. I can go out and skydive for my first and last time, while doing it only once. Thats my point. We know of only 1 mistake made by Ozzel, and remember that Captian Needa was killed after one mistake, so isn't it unfair to harshly judge poor Admiral Ozzel and consider him stupid or incompetant? Vader was consumed by the Dark Side, he liked killing, and didn't mind taking his own frustration out on innocent bystanders like Ozzel.

[Jedi Kum-ahK]

If I may also add my comments, please remember that Vader did not give anyone time to think out strategies. Had Ozzel had the time that Thrawn took took to run his schemes, he might have performed better. Anyone working under Vader was under serious pressure to perform miracles in the shortest possible time.
I know I said earlier that Thrawn was more brilliant than Ozzel, but Thrawn was not under any particular timepressure, if you get what I mean.

Working under Vader meant you became a bumbling, nervous fool, especially when he was always standing next to you, no matter what brilliance you might display on your own or at the Academy.

[bodhisattva yoda]

if he was a traitor, there would have been more evidence to suggest such a scenerio. he was obviously not supposed to be portrayed as one. this is a fanfic mind at work here.

[Soontir Solo]

Thrawn was under a ton of pressure Krum. He was working with an Empire a quarter the size of during Ozze's time, against an enemy taking back systems everyday, and dealing with an inexpierenced and depressed fighting force. I would say that he had just as much pressure on him as Ozzel did.

[Jedi Kum-ahK]

I agree if you say that Thrawn was under some pressure, and he had less resources to work with.
On the other hand, he had quite a lot of time in the Unknown Regions where he could plot his schemes. And he had a great deal of access to information that the New Republic didn't have. And I think it might be easier to think under external pressure rather than having Yours Truly standing next to you.

[Master_MJade]

esp since the death rate with Yours Truely was so high

[Cæsar Iaius I]

Originally posted by Jedi Kum-ahK@Mar 24 2003, 11:38 AM
Working under Vader meant you became a bumbling, nervous fool, especially when he was always standing next to you, no matter what brilliance you might display on your own or at the Academy.
Curious. We seem to recall Thrawn performing quite admirably in "Side Trip" when he was subordinated under Lord Vader.

Perhaps one should not generalize and base arguments on unjustifiable assumptions?

Vader demanded an efficiency from his men that should have already been instilled in them since the Academy. Perhaps one may notice that Firmus Piett did not suffer a loss in competancy when he attained flag rank?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>Thrawn was under a ton of pressure Krum. He was working with an Empire a quarter the size of during Ozze's time, against an enemy taking back systems everyday, and dealing with an inexpierenced and depressed fighting force. I would say that he had just as much pressure on him as Ozzel did. [/b][/quote]

Grand Admiral Thrawn was not working for the Empire. Grand Admiral Thrawn was a warlord, attempting to re-shape the galaxy in his own image whilst maintaining the guise that he was loyal to the New Order.

Consider the following passage, excerpted from The Imperial Sourcebook:
As years passed and he grew stronger, he began to concentrate more on his Dark Side studies. Still, he did grow occasionally concerned when one leader or another would come close to silencing the others and claiming the throne. Such ones were dealt with easily. He could let any one of his Dark Side Adepts or other loyal servants handle the matter. After all, he still had his Hands and his Noghri.

When his servant, Thrawn, made his claim, Palpatine could only watch in sadness. He had hoped Thrawn would know better. It was heartening to see how effectively Thrawn dealt with the cruel hand fate had dealt him. A lesser person would have despaired. But a lesser person would never have been chosen as a Grand Admiral by Palpatine in the first place.

Still, no contender could ever be allowed to become too powerful. It was no accident when Thrawn fell. Palpatine never knew if Thrawn guessed that he was being used to divert attention from his own return.

As one can readily see, the Emperor was pooling loyal forces into the Deep Core for his re-ascendancy to power. Grand Admiral Thrawn was just another diversion for the Rebellion. He enjoyed pitting ambitious admirals against each other while he convalesced on Byss.

[Jedi Kum-ahK]

Thank you Caesar, for your input!
Have you read the "Hand of Thrawn" duology? It states there quite learly, that palpatine sent thrawn out there to fulfill a mission, not only to map the place as many thought had been his punishment for meddling in court politics. Of course, you are also right when you say that he had his own goals and was not exactly working for the Empire.The proof is there in the "Hand of Thrawn" books. I agree absolutely.
Also, you are right when you say that I was generalizing. I did not mean all commanders, but I am sure that the majority of them did not perform well in Vader's presence.
BTW, what is Side Trip, is it a computer game? I remeber a friend of mine had some PC game, I think it was Tie Fighter and there was an image of Thrawn deputizing on his own StarDestroyer as Rear Admiral (still with the rank of Grand Admiral).

[Cæsar Iaius I]

Side Trip is a short story written by Michael A. Stackpole and Timothy Zahn. It can be found in the Tales from the Empire novel.

[Jedi Kum-ahK]

Thank you. I'll try to get hold of it.

[Obidobi]

Perhaps Ozzel was secretly married with Mon Mothma..... style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wacko.gif

[mrnapier]

I think this is the man of supreme strategies after Palpatine ofcourse:

Grand Moff Tarkin was the Imperial governor of the Outland Regions, and the mastermind of the Death Star project. A brilliant and ruthless tactician, Tarkin was a loyal adherent to Emperor Palpatine's vision of the New Order. He saw the Death Star as the ultimate weapon to ensure absolute rule over the galaxy.

[Stale Elvis]

"The rebels are alerted to our presence, Admiral Ozzel came out of lightspeed too close to the system."

Why was Ozzel wrong in doing this??? Seems to me the best tactic was to come out of hyperspace practically on top of the rebel base giving them less chance to react properly. If Ozzel came out of lightspeed at the edge of the sytem surely the rebels would be able to detect a fleet of Stardestroyers and a Super Stardestroyer sneeking up on them.

Riekan says that with all the meteor activity it would be difficult to spot approaching ships, but surely you'd be able to detect a fleet of Star Destroyers no matter what...

...so what other options are available other than a large full scale assault...???

[Bandersnatch]

If the Imperial fleet had come out of hyperspace further away from the system, the Star Destroyers could have flanked the planet rather than ending up all on one side. The way Ozzel did it, the whole fleet ended up in one place on one side of the planet, allowing rebels to escape.

[RollaFett]

Yeah, that sounds logical. I've always wondered about that as well.
Good, sound reasoning, Bander.

[Bandersnatch]

Sometimes I amaze even myself...

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/howdy.gif

[Talcy]

But...would Vader have choked him if he had found Danny Kendall slumped in the back of his TIE Fighter?

[Jacen Solo]

I'm not ignoring your question, Talcy, I just don't have an answer. But I do have another question. Darth Vader didn't hesitate at all when it came to killing off Admiral Ozzel. Yet later, when the Millenium Falcon slipped past Vader's Star Destroyer and into hyperspace, Darth Vader walked across the bridge and just kind of looked at Admiral Piett before walking off. I was surprised Vader didn't kill him too.

Was it just that Vader was so disappointed that Luke escaped, or was there another reason Vader didn't choke Piett? Even if Vader knew Luke's escape wasn't Piett's fault, it just seems that Vader doesn't care much for mercy.

Sorry if this is getting off the subject, but this is something I've been wondering about for some time.

[darthimmus]

I think Kershnerr said in the commentary that Vader was too upset to even bother with killing Piett.

[RollaFett]

Yeah, I seem to remember Kersh saying that as well.
Apart from that, though, I like to think that the emotional buttons that were just pushed throughout the emotional battle with Luke percolated a teeny, tiny sliver of compassion at just the right time for Piett.
Also, it's simply another great scene in ESB. You can see that dread overcoming Piett, he knows it's coming, then suddenly Vader simply marches off. You just know that up until his demise in ROTJ, Piett was constantly looking over his shoulder.

[Stale Elvis]

...i still dont get it... if Ozzel had come out of lightspeed at the edge of the system, they crept in and circled the planet and then started the assault, the rebels would have had even more time to react...

...Ozzel dropped in on top of them, they cocky-doody their pants and threw up the deffensive shield... had Ozzel crept up on them they would have seen them at the same distance they originally did...

In my mind Vader was punnishing Ozzel for the whole Danny Kendall incident.

[Bandersnatch]

Originally posted by Luuke_Skywalker@Feb 6 2005, 01:14 AM
Darth Vader walked across the bridge and just kind of looked at Admiral Piett before walking off.* I was surprised Vader didn't kill him too.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>



Imagine how Piett felt...

style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/butbut.gif

[Master Magnus]

While Bandersnatch made some good points, I wish to present an alternative. Vader didn't want to alert the Rebels to soon. This would have been possible by entering the Hoth system far from Hoth 6 where the Alliance base was located (which the sensors wouldn't detect), and slowly approach the planet making the rebels believe it was asteroids. Ozzel instead opted for a direct head on attack, which had the effect that the rebels could detect the ships as they left hyperspace and had time to raise the shield. If Vader's approach had been used, the fleet had approached the planet undetected and could have destroyed the rebel shield generator from orbit which would have delayed the evacuation.

[Master_Mams]

Exactly.
What Ozzel did that bothered Vader was impeding a planetary bombardement. As soon as the rebels had knowledge of the presence of the imperial fleet in the hoth system, they had plenty of time to evacuate and defend their headquarters. A planetary bombardement would have been tactically more effective and more cost efficient for Vader and the Empire at that time.

On another hand, Vader had to kill people around him to show the audience that he was still as mercyless than in ANH. Imagine ESB without those murders, Vader simply wouldn't be Vader. He would look like a wandering character, not the complex character that he is.

[JLX-1138]

Why was Ozzel wrong?

Because Vader said so. Hehe.

And about not killing Piett, i like to think it's the beginning of Anakin's redemption.

And I agree with Master_Mams, we needed to see Vader kill people to show how deep he was in the darkness. In ANH, he was not such a bad ass. He killed Obi-Wan, but it was clear that the two had reasons to fight and to kill each other. He was not the boss on the Death Star, Tarkin gave the order to destroy Alderaan.

But in ESB it's clear that you don't mess around with the man in black.

[Gazelle]

I think he killed him because Michael Sheard was a nightmare to work with on the set!

[Erick Landrider]

Originally posted by Bandersnatch@Feb 5 2005, 04:36 PM
If the Imperial fleet had come out of hyperspace further away from the system, the Star Destroyers could have flanked the planet rather than ending up all on one side. The way Ozzel did it, the whole fleet ended up in one place on one side of the planet, allowing rebels to escape.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>


This is the theory that makes the most sense to me. Ozzel's attack plan seems more like an effort at intimidation than a good plan.


...and who the frick is Danny Kendall?

[Stale Elvis]

...oh Danny Kendall... misunderstood lad...

[Stale Elvis]

[attachmentid=8109]
[attachmentid=8110]

[Mothman]

Originally posted by Master_Mams@Feb 6 2005, 03:41 PM
.....As soon as the rebels had knowledge of the presence of the imperial fleet in the hoth system, they had plenty of time to evacuate and defend their headquarters.....
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>


As long as we're hyperanalyzing things, how about this: If they were so concerned about not giving the Rebels plenty of time to evacuate, etc., why didn't they just land the AT-AT walkers closer to the Rebel base in the first place? They gave the Rebels all that time to escape while walking across that Norwegian glacier. (Also, who thought up the AT-AT design? It didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that you could trip them pretty easily.)

[Stale Elvis]

The couldn't land the walkers close to Echo base because of the defensive shield... they had to land outside of it ans walk the rest of the way...

[darthimmus]

If the Rebels didn't have vehicles equipped with harpoons and cables, they couldn't done much of everything. Just avoiding the AT-AT crossfire proved too difficult for the Rebel pilots to take advantage of this weakness.

[Sam Kenobi]

Is that Danny Kendall thing supposed to be funny . . . ? I don't see the humor . . . Am I missing something?

[smudger9]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>The couldn't land the walkers close to Echo base because of the defensive shield... they had to land outside of it ans walk the rest of the way... [/b][/quote]

One thing i could never work out about ESB is how the empire manage to get into Echo Base before the power generator is destroyed.

[darthimmus]

It might be somthing like the Gungan shields, you cant' shoot through it but you can walk through it

[smudger9]

If that was so they needn't have blown up the shield generator. I assumed the shield was similar to that around the death star II ..... you hit it and you get mushed.

[MeBeJedi]

"A planetary bombardement would have been tactically more effective and more cost efficient for Vader and the Empire at that time."

Except for the fact that Vader wanted prisoners, like Luke. Have we forgotten the crawl already?

[Sargoth]

Originally posted by Mothman@Feb 9 2005, 01:03 PM
As long as we're hyperanalyzing things...
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>


Yes, as obsessed fanboys we all do this. But we've gotta remember, Lucas is a storyteller, not a military tactician. Many of the ship designs and tactics used (especially in ANH/ESB) are made more for "feel" than reality. Look at the tactics used in the trench run - ludicrous! No covering fire for the ships on the attack run, navigating down the entire trench where you have no room to maneuver rather than just divebombing straight for it, etc. However, this is perhaps one of the most memorable and exciting scenes in the entire series. 28 years later, and my heart *still* races during this scene. As far as the battle of Hoth: Why didn't the rebel pilots simply attack the AT-AT's where the guns *weren't* - the sides and backs? Instead, they attacked head-on. So I think we need to give Lucas a little bit of leeway in how they attacked. I do agree with the theory that the Vader wanted to use the asteroids to sneak to planet and bombard it from space.

Yeah, Ozzel was a putz. Captain Needa, on the other hand - he was just in command of the wrong ship at the wrong time. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif

And I also agree with why Piett was left alive. The confrontation with Luke woke up some of the humanity that Vader had kept suppressed for so many years

[Master_Mams]

Originally posted by MeBeJedi@Feb 10 2005, 08:18 PM
"A planetary bombardement would have been tactically more effective and more cost efficient for Vader and the Empire at that time."

Except for the fact that Vader wanted prisoners, like Luke. Have we forgotten the crawl already?
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>


No we didn't, but Vader didn't knew at that point that Luke was his son (since the dvd release), and he didn't knew if luke was on hoth or not. He just felt through the force that hoth was the good system to go to, despite what ozzel said.

The crawls actually are not to be trusted, there is a lot of nonsens in them.
In TPM the crawls says 2 jedi KNIGHTS are sent by the supreme chancellor. In fact there is one Master and one Padawan.
The crawl of ROTS has been already published in the O.S. and it does have a similar problem regarding the status given to one character.

Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying that the crawls are lying, I'm saying that their purpose is to introduce the general audience into the bigger story, and in doing so they sometimes twist the reality of details.

[Cassus Fett]

Originally posted by Bandersnatch@Feb 5 2005, 10:36 PM
If the Imperial fleet had come out of hyperspace further away from the system, the Star Destroyers could have flanked the planet rather than ending up all on one side. The way Ozzel did it, the whole fleet ended up in one place on one side of the planet, allowing rebels to escape.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>


plus if they could have surrounded the planet and orbital bombared the planet first

[empire21]

ozzel was wrong because he's as clumsy as he is stupid

[Obidobi]

^was....

[hunkyspunky]

Ozzel was going to get the golden handshake anyway. he never really like the health benefits provided by the empire. surgery to recover from a fatal force choke is quite expensive these days...

[empire21]

Originally posted by Obidobi@Feb 18 2005, 11:41 PM
^was....
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>

good point

[Underoath]

Vader wanted Luke, and Ozzel alerted the Rebels too soon, so everyone got away. Vader was pissed.

[empire21]

Nice avatar, but 24th century Star Trek sucks not 23rd. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif
Sorry back on topic.

[fred2]

Ozzel was member of the Alliance. He alerted the Rebels on purpose.

At least that's the impression I've always had.

[Stale Elvis]

Originally posted by fred2@Mar 5 2005, 08:39 PM
Ozzel was member of the Alliance. He alerted the Rebels on purpose.

At least that's the impression I've always had.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>



What??? tell me you're joking...

[Underoath]

That is a good theory actually.

[fred2]

I'm not joking. And don't call me "What". style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/hehe.gif

[Bandersnatch]

Originally posted by fred2@Mar 5 2005, 07:39 PM
Ozzel was member of the Alliance. He alerted the Rebels on purpose.

At least that's the impression I've always had.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>


What exact piece of info in the movie gave you that impression?


style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/giveup.gif

[empire21]

^good question.

[fred2]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>What exact piece of info in the movie gave you that impression?[/b][/quote]

Simply the scence itself (coming out of hyperspace too soon) made me think he's a double agent. Also (in the scene before), he is too dismisive of the probe droid recording. He literally tries to talk Vader out of investigating the Hoth system while they are both staring at a photo of the shield generator! I can't see the admiral of the fleet's flagship being so ignorant.

Even though it hasn't been confirmed by any official source, I just always had the impression he was protecting Hoth. I'm surprised that no one else here perceived the scene the same way.

[Kam Solusar]

Originally posted by fred2@Mar 7 2005, 03:13 PM
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>What exact piece of info in the movie gave you that impression?

Simply the scence itself (coming out of hyperspace too soon) made me think he's a double agent. Also (in the scene before), he is too dismisive of the probe droid recording. He literally tries to talk Vader out of investigating the Hoth system while they are both staring at a photo of the shield generator! I can't see the admiral of the fleet's flagship being so ignorant.

Even though it hasn't been confirmed by any official source, I just always had the impression he was protecting Hoth. I'm surprised that no one else here perceived the scene the same way.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>
[/b][/quote]

Interesting way to look at it. Personally, I always felt his reaction to the shield generator was more of exactly what he said. It could have been anything, and they had probes out to hundreds of planets. He was being pragmatic compared to Vader's Force feeling instincts.

[General Nikola]

Originally posted by Bandersnatch@Feb 5 2005, 08:36 PM
If the Imperial fleet had come out of hyperspace further away from the system, the Star Destroyers could have flanked the planet rather than ending up all on one side. The way Ozzel did it, the whole fleet ended up in one place on one side of the planet, allowing rebels to escape.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>


Bandersnatch has a point here.It would be harder for the Rebels to win if Ozzel ordered to flank the planet. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif

[General Nikola]

Originally posted by Bandersnatch@Feb 5 2005, 08:36 PM
If the Imperial fleet had come out of hyperspace further away from the system, the Star Destroyers could have flanked the planet rather than ending up all on one side. The way Ozzel did it, the whole fleet ended up in one place on one side of the planet, allowing rebels to escape.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>


You have a point there Bander. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/thumbsup.gif

[Sargoth]

Originally posted by fred2@Mar 5 2005, 06:39 PM
Ozzel was member of the Alliance. He alerted the Rebels on purpose.

At least that's the impression I've always had.
<div align="right">Quoted post</div>


Seriously, I don't know where some fanboys get their delusions... From TOS Databank:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'> Clumsy and stupid -- an unflattering epitaph for Admiral Ozzel crafted by none other than Darth Vader, the man who killed him. Ozzel was the Imperial Navy officer in command of the Imperial Death Squadron prior to the Battle of Hoth. Ozzel was a by-the-manual type officer, with little imagination. He initially disregarded Captain Piett's report of life-signs in the Hoth system. When Vader decided to follow Piett's leads, Ozzel brought the Imperial fleet out of hyperspace too close to the system.

Alerted to the Imperial presence, the Rebels were able to erect a protective energy shield over Echo Base, preventing any Imperial bombardment. What was to be a simple bombing strike now was transformed into a costly ground invasion. It was the last error Ozzel ever made. Using the Force, Vader telekinetically strangled Ozzel, and placed Captain Piett in command of the fleet.


Given his ineptness, many wonder how Ozzel had achieved his rank. Some speculate old ties between his influential family and the military cemented his advancement in the Navy. The Ozzels are a long line of land-owners on the Imperial Academy world of Carida. Ages ago, Mann Ozzel organized the trading of many of the world's mineral rights, gaining the Ozzels considerable wealth.

As a second son, Kendal Ozzel was not in line to inherit the family business, so he bettered himself with the opportunities available to the privileged few. He attended the best institutes of higher learning in the Core, using his family name to ascend the political, social and eventually, the military ranks of the Empire. As a captain, Ozzel served for a time as a Naval Academy instructor on Coruscant.

The destruction of the Death Star saw an immense power vacuum from the resulting death of many of the Empire's brightest and most capable Naval officers. Ozzel took advantage of this calamity to further climb the military ladder, landing the position of Death Squadron commander. It would ultimately be his undoing.

[/b][/quote]

This is not the traitor you're looking for. Move along.

[Sarah-Leia]

Why do all of you people hate OZZEL??? YOU MAKE ME CRY!!!!! OZZEL IS COOL!!!

[Darth Massacrus]

Massacrus here. Apparently, there were Ozzels on the crucial and influential Core World of Anaxes, as stated in the Coruscant and the Core Worlds SB. By the way, when Han Solo was cashiered from the Imperial Navy, it was none other than Kendall Ozzel that was the officer that presided over Solo's court martial. Also, read the Movie Trilogy SB for more info on the most infamous Ozzel. It also states that Lorth Needa of the Avenger was assigned to the Death Squadron by Ozzel himself, though Needa, unlike Ozzel, was extremely Competent and experienced. ask me how I know THAT. Could be at least part of why Vader killed Needa, for he may have percieved him as being to close to the late and inept Ozzel. And a potential reason for why Ozzel may have thought the sheild generator to be a part of a smuggler base: there were many powerful and well armed Smugglers operations in the Galaxy: Black Sun, the Hutts, Talon Karrde, Booster Terrik, ect. Also, Firmus Piett was highly competent, Vader had assigned him and his Star Destroyer Accuser to the Death Squadron personally. When Captain Ozzel became commander of the Death Squadron, Piett moved up to the command of Executor. Piett took a concern in the progressof the probe droids, much to the approval of Vader, he was present on the bridge like any good Captain when Hoth was located. Waiting for Vader and Ozzel to both be present, he notified them, knowing Ozzel would dismiss the find as either pirates or smugglers. Piett knew that would elevate him in Vaders eyes. He was right, and later, Ozzel would make the last mistake of his life not soon afterwards. Also, the actor who portrayed Ozzel in ESB, Micheal Sheard, recently passed away.

[Padme-Lily]

Aww come on Ozzel's cool!
DO NOT TELL ME I AM CRAZY BECAUSE IF YOU LIKE LUKE OBI-WAN OR YODA YOU ARE CRAZY!
Anyway if Ozzel did not ACCIDENTLY pull the ship out of hyperspace too early then the Empire would have suprised the rebel alliance and destroyed them!

[Darth Massacrus]

Padme L: thank you for being the first to respond to my info on Ozzel. I was wondering if anyone would.

[Cydon]

Now that I found it I will. I have a love/hate thing with Ozzel. I love him because...well...???? I hate him because he wasn't a good Admiral. I'm measure any military leader with Feldmarschall Erwin Rommel, my favorite General. I wish Vader had demoted Ozzel to Captain, not :skull: him.

[Darth Massacrus]

As forgiving as Vader ishttp://www.galacticsenate.com/images/icons/icon12.gif, he had to kill Ozzel for his grievous error.

[Cydon]

Like they did to poor Bevel. Over, and over again.

[Tovor]

Why do all of you people hate OZZEL??? YOU MAKE ME CRY!!!!! OZZEL IS COOL!!!
Now you know how we feel when you diss Luke. Some of us get all weepy. :crying:

[Tovor]

What I think about Ozzel is, that he may be of a military mind so fixed on how he thought things should be done, that he didn't agree with Vader on the dark lord's approach to tracking down the rebels. I think he may have thought all along that while Vader was not a commander to mess with and disrespect, that Vader didn't know half of what Ozzel's instincts told him about how to route out the rebels. Meaning, that he showed respect on the outside but didn't feel it on the inside for Vader or his military tactics. When he cautioned that Hoth seemed unlikely, I don't think that he did it in any way to protect the rebel base, but instead because he thought it was a foolish detour for naught, off the proper trail that he felt they should have stayed on instead. He was just wise enough tnot to mock Vader face to grill the way Motti did.

[Padme-Lily]

Huh?
Sarah did not diss luke well not in the standards comaired to when we talk!
But luke is annoying,whiny,stupid,pathetic,etc.

However Ozzel is cool,NOT annoying, NOT whiny, NOT stupid and NOT pathetic.

[Tovor]

Huh?
Sarah did not diss luke well not in the standards comaired to when we talk!
But luke is annoying,whiny,stupid,pathetic,etc.

However Ozzel is cool,NOT annoying, NOT whiny, NOT stupid and NOT pathetic.
Need I point out the irony of your statement? :hehe:

[Sarah-Leia]

Huh?
standards comaired to when we talk!

Lily, it's compared. But thanks for backing me up, Ozzel-liker! :leiaxmas:

\/ Does S.L. Mean Sarah-Leia as in me? I do know that Michael Sheard passed away...:(

[Darth Massacrus]

S.L.: did you see my post on Ozzel? the actor who portrayed him, Micheal Sheard, recently passed away...

[Tovor]

S.L.: did you see my post on Ozzel? the actor who portrayed him, Micheal Sheard, recently passed away...
That was over a year ago when he died. I met him too, I think a week or so before he died. Very nice guy. I actually said to him, "You have failed me for the last time, Mr. Sheard," and he looked at me like I was a nut because he hears that constantly from fans.

[Darth Massacrus]

Please do not tell me that Mr. Sheard died of choking, or windpipe blockage...

[General Grievous]

well, I don't *remember* why he died, but I'm pretty sure it didn't have to do with anything like that :lol:

[Sarah-Leia]

Aww come on Ozzel's cool!
DO NOT TELL ME I AM CRAZY BECAUSE IF YOU LIKE LUKE OBI-WAN OR YODA YOU ARE CRAZY!
Anyway if Ozzel did not ACCIDENTLY pull the ship out of hyperspace too early then the Empire would have suprised the rebel alliance and destroyed them!
Um Lily, I thought you hate the Rebel Alliance. You are always saying, "Oh, why did they have to blow up the Death Star" and "The Empire Is Cool" (I agree) but the message that you posted totally contradicts what you are always saying. Of course I could tell you this almost 24/7 but...meh.

*EDIT: Oh, right, I remembered. It's not the Rebels, it's Luke that you hate*

[Darth Massacrus]

did y'all know that it was Ozzel who presided over the court martial of a certain Imperial officer named Han Solo?

[Sarah-Leia]

Yes...and Han thought that Ozzel was stupid :(. Naughty Han. Insulting his superior.

[Darth Massacrus]

wow. surprised you knew that. Then again, do you know which planet Ozzels family is from?

[Sarah-Leia]

Yes, Ozzel's family is from Carida. And no, I didn't have to look that up.

[Darth Massacrus]

well, there are also prominent Ozzels on the Core Worlds planet Anaxes

[Sarah-Leia]

Really? THAT I didn't know...I'm interested in ONE Ozzel only! How cool is the name Ozzel, anyway?

[Padme-Lily]

Ozzel is such a cool name i agree!
And yes I am also only interseted in one Ozzel.

Admiral Kendal Ozzel!!!!!!

[.:Luminara:.]

um...who's Ozzel?

[James]

He was as clumsy as he was stupid, and came out of lightspeed too close to the Hoth system. He never believed that the rebels were on Hoth, believing they could be smugglers or anything. He was choked by Darth Vader for his stupidity ;)

[Sarah-Leia]

James! He wasn't stupid. He was just very military minded - he would not waste time on something without having complete proof! .:Luminara:., go here:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ozzel
Hope that helps ;)

[James]

The sw.com databank calls Ozzel inept and that he just got to be admiral because he was from the right family. ;)
http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/admiralozzel/

[Darth Massacrus]

^ it is a little more complex than that. When the man responsible for the construction of the Executor and in charge of several ships in the Death Squadron, Admiral Amise Griff, was killed through sheer stupidity, the senior Star Destroyer Captain, Kendall Ozzel, moved up in rank to replace him, as Ozzel was Captain of Executor. Ozzel had previously been an important figure at the Carida Academy, and had presided over many court martials, including that of lieutenant Han Solo. Not much else is known about his prior career, but it is certainly possible that he served in the Clone Wars, much as Lorth Needa had. In addition, the rpg sorcebook Coruscant and the Core Worlds mentions that several prominent families in the Imperial military have estates on Anaxes. Among those listed were: Banjeers, Wermises, Jerjerrods, Ozzels, and others I cant remember. Basically, Captain Kendall Ozzel got command of the Executor and later the Death Squadron via both family connections and a military background at Carida.

[.:Luminara:.]

Thanks guys. Ozzel. Got it. ;)

[Padme-Lily]

Ozzel!!!!!!!!

Have headache... spent the last week just looking at wookieeepedia to many mentinings of luke *shudder* it was horrible untill i saw the Ozzel section and read it again for about the thousandth time!!!

Now happy OZZEL!!!!!!!!

[James]

What is it with your obsession for Ozzel?

[James]

Thanks for the rep point lumi but you gave me a negative one ;)

[Solo]

did y'all know that it was Ozzel who presided over the court martial of a certain Imperial officer named Han Solo?

And I guess Chewie was somehow involved in this court martial and Han saved him. Tha's why Chewie is always with Han.

[Sarah-Leia]

If I understand where you're coming from, then no, solo. Chewie and thousands of other Wookiees were slaves of the Empire, and Han was ordered to kill Chewie for something. He refused, and so was put on trial. How he escaped the trial, I don't know, but for saving his life, Chewbacca had a life-pledge to Han.

[Sarah-Leia]

What is it with your obsession for Ozzel?

Um, Lily and I were watching ESB one day and she randomly said, "Hey do you wanna be obsessed with Ozzel?"

[James]

lol!! an interesting character to be obsessed with, seeing that he's only in 2 scenes of ESB.

[Sarah-Leia]

Meh. A small price to pay for being crazy...an obsession with a minor Star Wars character ;)

[Padme-Lily]

OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!!

Oh well he is is one of our five favourite guys from Star Wars!!!

[Solo]

If I understand where you're coming from, then no, solo. Chewie and thousands of other Wookiees were slaves of the Empire, and Han was ordered to kill Chewie for something. He refused, and so was put on trial. How he escaped the trial, I don't know, but for saving his life, Chewbacca had a life-pledge to Han.

Actually that was what I was trying to say. Han was sent to court because of Chewie ( he refused to kill him and by refusing to kill him he saved Chewie's life). Only I wasn't clear enough. Thanks.:bye:

[Sarah-Leia]

Right. :D

[Sarah-Leia]

They're selling an Ozzel figurine on e-Bay. If only I had an e-Bay account. My dad does, but he doesn't have access to a computer where he lives, and he hardly even knows what Star Wars is.

[MandalorianJF]

HE'S A Rebel!!!
"REBEL SCUM"

[MandalorianJF]

OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!! OZZEL!!!!!!

Oh well he is is one of our five favourite guys from Star Wars!!!

What are the others?

[flo fett]

Meh. A small price to pay for being crazy...an obsession with a minor Star Wars character ;)
I was obsessed with a minor character too...then the universe went schizo and Fettlove ruled! :lol:
So keep loving the old admiral, you never know he might end up with a massive following too! Lol!

[Darth Massacrus]

one could hope. Example: Sate Pestage has the briefest cameo in ROTJ, and was cut from ESB. But man, is the EU full of him!

[Sarah-Leia]

I was obsessed with a minor character too...then the universe went schizo and Fettlove ruled! :lol:
So keep loving the old admiral, you never know he might end up with a massive following too! Lol!

Of course he will!
I must bide my time...*strokes cat evilly*

AND OZZEL WILL TAKE OVER THE WORLD!!!!

A good sign of Ozzel popularity: he has his own thread!
Now we need an Ozzel smilie! ;)
And lookie here is an Ozzel Sim (http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=191964) for The Sims 2...however Lily and I took the good news too well and they locked the thread and gave us warning points :blush: but we hate the peeps on MTS2 now, we won't "spam" here, we promise. Ever.

[Darth Massacrus]

perhaps a SW Battlefront or Empire at War mod could be of Ozzel...

[Sarah-Leia]

*sigh* Oh how I love Ozzel!
He is so cool! He will soon become more popular than the "Han shot first" theory!
:lol: OZZEL!

(I hope this is not counted as spamming as this is the Ozzel thread)

[Darth Massacrus]

SL: perhaps Admiral Ozzel had some sons and daughters? That would be cool...

[MandalorianJF]

SL: perhaps Admiral Ozzel had some sons and daughters? That would be cool...

He did not, I think.

[Darth Massacrus]

I hope he did, just like Veers had a son and Piett a nephew...

[MandalorianJF]

I hope he did, just like Veers had a son and Piett a nephew...

He had a nephew? who?

[Sarah-Leia]

SL: perhaps Admiral Ozzel had some sons and daughters? That would be cool...

*pleasant shock* MINI OZZELS!
:happydance:

[Darth Massacrus]

SL: I figured you would like that idea!

MJF: Pietts nephew is Captain Sarkli, a former member of Rouge Squadron who defected to the Empire and became one of the Empires best Storm Commando's. He was present among the officers seen in the Death Star docking bay in ROTJ, and aided in the defense of the shield bunker during the Endor battle. He was shot dead as he intercepted Han Solo and tried to stop him from placing the charges in the bunker. He is the main villain in the Gamecube game Rouge Squadron 3: Rebel Strike. A truly great game.

[MandalorianJF]

MINI OZZELS!

LOL

[huttslime]

May the Ozzel be with you.

[Sarah-Leia]

No, no, May the Force be with Ozzel, silly!

I do wish there was "Ozzel's Theme" on the soundtrack and that there were more scenes with Ozzel in them. *sigh*

Ayaahhh! Michael Sheard! Alas the day you left us! :crying:

[Darth Massacrus]

so you heard about Mr. Sheard.... at least Ken Colley and Micheal Pennington are still around...

[huttslime]

So manny michaels around. You know my first name is michael too.


TOOT TOOOT TOOOT, Train coming through!

[Sarah-Leia]

so you heard about Mr. Sheard.... at least Ken Colley and Micheal Pennington are still around...

Well duh I heard about Mr. Sheard. . .:crying:

Every character has a portrayer!

Every fan must do their research!

[Padme-Lily]

What are the others?

Han, Darth Vader, Lando, Qui-Gon and OZZEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :bigsmile:

[Padme-Lily]

Of course he will!
I must bide my time...*strokes cat evilly*

AND OZZEL WILL TAKE OVER THE WORLD!!!!

A good sign of Ozzel popularity: he has his own thread!
Now we need an Ozzel smilie! ;)
And lookie here is an Ozzel Sim (http://www.modthesims2.com/showthread.php?t=191964) for The Sims 2...however Lily and I took the good news too well and they locked the thread and gave us warning points :blush: but we hate the peeps on MTS2 now, we won't "spam" here, we promise. Ever.

Yes true Ozzel WILL take over the world, but on MTS2 you know we only 'dislike' Lethe_S.
The rest are okay I suppose... :devil:
And I said to you they would lock it, thats the reason I asked you to ask Amy to send it to us!
Stroking CATS evilly! (my cat, Rosie and my neighbours, Jackson)

[Padme-Lily]

I can not wai untill the time they bring out an Ozzel video game!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OZZEL! OZZEL! OZZEL! OZZEL! OZZEL! OZZEL! OZZEL! OZZEL! OZZEL! OZZEL! OZZEL! OZZEL! OZZEL! OZZEL! OZZEL! OZZEL! OZZEL! OZZEL! OZZEL! OZZEL!

[Sarah-Leia]

Han, Darth Vader, Lando, Qui-Gon and OZZEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :bigsmile:
I do believe you've forgotten Anakin Skywalker.
YLAS!

:P
:nahnah:
:tease:

[Padme-Lily]

I do believe you've forgotten Anakin Skywalker.
YLAS!

:P
:nahnah:
:tease:

Huh???
YOU ARE SO EVIL!!!!!!!!

[Sarah-Leia]

Huh???
YOU ARE SO EVIL!!!!!!!!

*raises eyebrow with finger* I find that rather hard to believe.

Ozzels says YLAS, too! You have power over Hannah, I have power over Ozzel.

[Padme-Lily]

Ozzel!
I watched ESB yesterday and I was very happy at the Ozzel scene!

[Darth Massacrus]

^what would you say to a funny pic of Ozzel?

[Padme-Lily]

Well, what do you mean by funny?

[Darth Massacrus]

the viewscreen scene of him from Darth Vader's chamber...:innocent:

[Padme-Lily]

That's evil *sob* I am now unhappy

[Darth Massacrus]

if it cheers you up, would you like a pic of Ozzel standing with the Legenday General Veers, discussing tactics on the bridge of the Executor? After all, ther IS such a scene in ESB...

[Darth Massacrus]

SL & PL: since anyone who like Imperial Officers is good in my book, heres a copy of Micheal Sheards signature pics:

All the best!

[Padme-Lily]

:yeah: :victory: :happy: :happydance:
Thanks heaps!

[Sarah-Leia]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Awesome! Thank you! :happydance:

*Ozzelishness*

[Padme-Lily]

OZZEL!

[Jedi Master Harrison]

I googled Ozzel and here are some random images I found. Apparently the rabbit is named General Ozzel. He has also had a small brewery make a beer with him on the label. And you may or may not know that he was also a very strict headteacher in a chidren's programme called Grange Hill which ran for years here in the UK.

[Darth Massacrus]

heres the infamous 'Ozzel scorn'

[Padme-Lily]

Hey, If the picture has Ozzel in it the picture is good!
(NOT OZZEL FORCE-CHOCKING TO DEATH :crying: :crying: :crying: :crying: *sob*)

[Sarah-Leia]

*sob* Poor OZZEL!

[James]

Who cares? Ozzel was stupid anyway :P

[Jedi Master Harrison]

Who cares? Ozzel was stupid anyway :P

Boy are you in for it!! Ozzel is a highly thought of character in the GS, amongst some quarters! :wink:

[Sarah-Leia]

^:hug: for you for defending Ozzel. And yes, James, you are in for it :wink:
There's just something so Ozzelish about Ozzel.

[Padme-Lily]

OZZEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!

[Padme-Lily]

OZZEL!
OZZEL!
OZZEL!
OZZEL!
OZZEL!
OZZEL!
OZZEL!

[Obidobi]

Spamming
Spamming
Spamming

[Darth Massacrus]

unfortunately, that is a little true... Lets talk about Captain Kendall Ozzels role in the new book Alliegance by Timothy Zahn. (SL& PL need to read this book, cuz it has their fave Imperial in it). I t was interesting to see how he interacts with Han Solo and Luke Skywalkers ship, (not realizing this was Han Solo, a man whose court-martial he had Presided over).

[ForceFlow]

OZZEL!
OZZEL!
OZZEL!
OZZEL!
OZZEL!
OZZEL!
OZZEL!

is it time to be scared??

[Sarah-Leia]

unfortunately, that is a little true... Lets talk about Captain Kendall Ozzels role in the new book Alliegance by Timothy Zahn. (SL& PL need to read this book, cuz it has their fave Imperial in it). I t was interesting to see how he interacts with Han Solo and Luke Skywalkers ship, (not realizing this was Han Solo, a man whose court-martial he had Presided over).

I haven't read it yet. Maybe because I don't usually read pre-ROTJ books.

[Darth Massacrus]

well, it isnt the most flattering portrayal of Ozzel, but if one asbolutlely, positively, must see more of Ozzel, there's really nothing else out there....

[Padme-Lily]

Who Cares? Ozzel will always be Super Cool!